Thoughts on Kwesi through ~3 seasons?

[SemperFeist]

3 minutes ago, Sad People said:

Is the Vikings roster being slept on by fans and people around the league? Or are we as Vikings fan overly optimistic about the roster?

Everywhere I go i see people say the Vikings arent close to contending or we have a bad roster and i dont really agree with that and just wanted other peoples opinions. I think were closer then people think but maybe thats my homer glasses on because i dont think we are THAT far away, still some work to do of course but not nearly as bad as others seem to think.

90% of people focus solely on the QB position. Since the Vikings downgraded from Cousins to Darnold, and drafted a rookie whose impact is unknown, they are naturally going to say that the Vikings got worse. 

But anyone who actually paid attention to what the Vikings did is going to see a better roster. While Darnold may be a downgrade from Cousins, he’s an upgrade from Dobbs and Mullens, who were far more the reason the Vikings went 7-10 than anything else. 

The RB position got significantly better. The secondary got better. The linebackers got better. The pass rush got better. And while there are still questions about the defensive line and the interior offensive line, no one can really say they got worse. 

Overall it’s closer to a more complete roster than where I think they were this time last year. But it is all going to come down to the QB position. 

[swede700]

 

[SemperFeist]

Ok. Have we just reached the “make 💩 up, and call it a stat” portion of analytics? 

[swede700]

Quote

 

Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah kept the league guessing with his big Day 1 trade (no, not the move up for J.J. McCarthy).

Adofo-Mensah, with an analytical background, played to his reputation early in his tenure. The first two moves of his first two drafts were trade-backs, including a significant jump from No. 12 to 32 with division rival Detroit in 2022. But over the past two months, Adofo-Mensah went all-in to move up -- three times, twice while on the clock -- to secure McCarthy and Alabama pass-rusher Dallas Turner.

"I had to think twice because I had him pegged as a volume guy when it came to draft picks," said an AFC executive whose team had correspondence with the Vikings on draft week. "It looks like he's shifted his thinking to where, the reality is it's hard to win without players you can build around."

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/40077804/key-intel-all-32-teams-2024-nfl-draft-depth-charts-buzz-team-needs-next

[SteelKing728]

Draft nerds will hate him because he doesn't care to accumulate the entire 7th round like Spielman did. 

I appreciate the aggressiveness. It's a nice change of pace from the previous front office. 

That being said, I'd still like to see us try to get more draft capital for 2025. We aren't guaranteed to be given anything for Atlanta's tampering and depending on where we are at by Week 10, it might be worth cutting one of our qualifying free agents to gain a 3rd round comp pick. 

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

That being said, I'd still like to see us try to get more draft capital for 2025. We aren't guaranteed to be given anything for Atlanta's tampering and depending on where we are at by Week 10, it might be worth cutting one of our qualifying free agents to gain a 3rd round comp pick. 

That can't happen.  Once he's signed, he's signed...there's no going back.

[SteelKing728]

23 minutes ago, swede700 said:

That can't happen.  Once he's signed, he's signed...there's no going back.

In terms of comp picks? If a player gets cut before week 10, it impacts the comp formula. 

That's why we didn't get a 3rd round comp pick for Sam Bradford in the 2018 draft.

[swede700]

2 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

In terms of comp picks? If a player gets cut before week 10, it impacts the comp formula. 

That's why we didn't get a 3rd round comp pick for Sam Bradford in the 2018 draft.

Then they changed the rules in the 2020 CBA, because I just saw yesterday or the day before that that's not the case.  Someone asked that very question and the responder said "No" (I believe he was that guy that always projects the picks).  

Edited May 7 by swede700

[SteelKing728]

51 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Then they changed the rules in the 2020 CBA, because I just saw yesterday or the day before that that's not the case.  Someone asked that very question and the responder said "No" (I believe he was that guy that always projects the picks).  

Of course we were one of the last teams to get screwed over lol

[swede700]

6 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

Of course we were one of the last teams to get screwed over lol

They were probably the impetus of the change because I imagined they complained about the loophole that the Cardinals were allowed to exploit.

[Cearbhall]

28 minutes ago, swede700 said:

They were probably the impetus of the change because I imagined they complained about the loophole that the Cardinals were allowed to exploit.

If they no longer have that flexibility, I consider it even worse that the Vikings didn't tender Risner. Does anyone have an explanation for why the Vikings didn't do that? Do they think he isn't worth the cost, which was less than $3MM? That's a fair price even if all he would end up being is a backup to Brandel and Ingram.  Having a low-cost backup with solid starting experience at a position where the team is weak would be a great thing.  Alternatively, if the tender offer motivated him to sign with another team before his rights went exclusively to the Vikings, it would be a good thing too.

I have been trying to give KAM the benefit of the doubt, but the honeymoon is starting to wear thin as I simply cannot make sense out of this. If the team wins the division, it'll all be good, but I am going to start looking at KAM's moves with a more skeptical eye.

I want the interior fronts, both offensive and defensive, prioritized higher than what I have seen since KAM got here. The time of giving him the benefit of the doubt and being happy to see how it turns out may be over by this time next year. I'll never argue with prioritizing the QB position higher (even if McCarthy turns out to be a complete bust), but there are other things that KAM could have done to help the interior lines. Tendering Risner is just one such thing.

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

Then they changed the rules in the 2020 CBA, because I just saw yesterday or the day before that that's not the case.  Someone asked that very question and the responder said "No" (I believe he was that guy that always projects the picks).  

That's interesting.  I either did not know or forgot that change to the rules.  I would be interested to know the source of the information. Meanwhile, I thought that I would have a nosey and reread article V of the CBA.  Indeed, there is nothing in there about whether the player is still on the roster at any particular later date after signing.  That makes me wonder whether they count even if the team cuts them before week 1.

I did notice this line and found it interesting:

Quote

If a Club trades for a player who was a CFA during that League Year, whether the player was another Club’s CFA or the acquiring Club’s own CFA, the player will be considered a CFA gained by the acquiring Club and will be included in the Compensatory netting process described above.

So, if McCarthy is starting at some point before the trade deadline and a team in a bad QB situation is willing to trade for Sam Darnold, Darnold would count as a CFA gained be the team trading for Darnold instead of a CFA gained by the Vikings.

I am curious if this rule will eventually lead to a team trading players away to a team that already won't be getting compensatory free agents and throwing in a lower draft pick to incent the team picking up the player so the team trading the player away would get a pick.

If Darnold is a backup, would KAM consider sending Darnold, a 7th round pick, and covering the rest of Darnold's salary to a team that would have no compensatory ramifications? The Vikings would gain a pick at the end of the 3rd and a roster spot to use for the back end of the year.  The other team could cut Darnold right away if they wanted and still be up a 7th round pick without costing themselves anything.

It's a curious situation. I am not sure that KAM could work it out. I'll just hope the Vikings are winning with Darnold playing great. That's the best-case scenario.

[vikesfan89]

5 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

That's interesting.  I either did not know or forgot that change to the rules.  I would be interested to know the source of the information. Meanwhile, I thought that I would have a nosey and reread article V of the CBA.  Indeed, there is nothing in there about whether the player is still on the roster at any particular later date after signing.  That makes me wonder whether they count even if the team cuts them before week 1.

I did notice this line and found it interesting:

So, if McCarthy is starting at some point before the trade deadline and a team in a bad QB situation is willing to trade for Sam Darnold, Darnold would count as a CFA gained be the team trading for Darnold instead of a CFA gained by the Vikings.

I am curious if this rule will eventually lead to a team trading players away to a team that already won't be getting compensatory free agents and throwing in a lower draft pick to incent the team picking up the player so the team trading the player away would get a pick.

If Darnold is a backup, would KAM consider sending Darnold, a 7th round pick, and covering the rest of Darnold's salary to a team that would have no compensatory ramifications? The Vikings would gain a pick at the end of the 3rd and a roster spot to use for the back end of the year.  The other team could cut Darnold right away if they wanted and still be up a 7th round pick without costing themselves anything.

It's a curious situation. I am not sure that KAM could work it out. I'll just hope the Vikings are winning with Darnold playing great. That's the best-case scenario.

That is interesting.  So if griffin were to play well enough the team could potentially trade him for a 7th and then get an extra comp pick?

[vikesfan89]

I'm sure Kwesi is aware of what it would take to get a comp pick.  A quality starter would probably be worth giving up that 3rd rounder but maybe he still has a plan to get it back.  I'll just wait until next year to see what they get. 

 

[swede700]

8 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I'm sure Kwesi is aware of what it would take to get a comp pick.  A quality starter would probably be worth giving up that 3rd rounder but maybe he still has a plan to get it back.  I'll just wait until next year to see what they get. 

 

Which is why it's so weird to me that people are dissecting this issue right now.  I'm not sure why anyone cares that much about something that won't be determined for awhile and really has little to no impact on anything in the future.  I tried to make a joke about all the 3rd and 4th rd picks that Spielman bombed on Twitter and I had a couple of people pointing out Danielle Hunter and Diggs (who wasn't even drafted until the 5th), but then I had to point out that neither one was a comp pick. The only even remotely relevant comp pick the Vikings had made in the last 15 years was Rhett Ellison.  And up until 2020, they couldn't trade them.