AP names Gardner Minshew starting QB

[Jerry]

6 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

It's a wasted season and they have zero chance of winning the SB with Minchew.  We are 1 and 1 so what?  We started out last season 1 and 1 with Jimmy G.

We have had drafts for the last 10 years and what has that done for our QBOTF?  Nothing.  The last two years we have trotted out Jimmy G and Minchew.  We have no plan in place at Qb other than blind faith that we will draft a guy. 

Blind faith in drafting a guy is still faith Frankie.  You just have to believe, blindly.  It's what being a Raiders fan is all about.

[MrOaktown_56]

10 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

It's a wasted season and they have zero chance of winning the SB with Minchew.  We are 1 and 1 so what?  We started out last season 1 and 1 with Jimmy G.

We have had drafts for the last 10 years and what has that done for our QBOTF?  Nothing.  The last two years we have trotted out Jimmy G and Minchew.  We have no plan in place at Qb other than blind faith that we will draft a guy. 

Tons of teams have drafted and developed a guy successfully, most recently the bills, chiefs, ravens among others. You are the one harping for a stable organization and good draft picks. You have to build a good foundation for a team for a QB to come in and succeed (unlike Carolina). We are clearly doing that by investing in the trenches in young players on both sides of the ball. You can't have it both ways.

[MrOaktown_56]

Also not winning the SB doesn't make it a wasted season. There are tons of young players developing on this roster and the coach/GM are transitioning in their guys. It takes continuity to build a playoff team and consistent winner.

[big_palooka]

21 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

It's a wasted season and they have zero chance of winning the SB with Minchew.  We are 1 and 1 so what?  We started out last season 1 and 1 with Jimmy G.

We have had drafts for the last 10 years and what has that done for our QBOTF?  Nothing.  The last two years we have trotted out Jimmy G and Minchew.  We have no plan in place at Qb other than blind faith that we will draft a guy. 

They had zero chance of winning the Super Bowl with a rookie QB. 

The plan is to draft a QB. It's that simple and it's that hard. Like the other 31 teams in the league who either have or hope to land their franchise QB. 

You're basically complaining because they didn't get one extra year to develop a rookie QB. What is the difference in drafting a QB in 2024 and 2025 really? Will that QB be better or worse having Brock Bowers on his team? 

 

[Bitty 2.0]

17 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Tons of teams have drafted and developed a guy successfully, most recently the bills, chiefs, ravens among others. You are the one harping for a stable organization and good draft picks. You have to build a good foundation for a team for a QB to come in and succeed (unlike Carolina). We are clearly doing that by investing in the trenches in young players on both sides of the ball. You can't have it both ways.

You have to keep the same coaching staff and system and have the quarterback grow within the system over years.

my number one thing is the quarterback should not start his rookie year.

Brady,  Rogers, Mahomes and Love all did not start right away.( that’s just off the top of my head)

[Bitty 2.0]

7 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

They had zero chance of winning the Super Bowl with a rookie QB. 

The plan is to draft a QB. It's that simple and it's that hard. Like the other 31 teams in the league who either have or hope to land their franchise QB. 

You're basically complaining because they didn't get one extra year to develop a rookie QB. What is the difference in drafting a QB in 2024 and 2025 really? Will that QB be better or worse having Brock Bowers on his team? 

 

Plus, I like the QBs in this draft a lot better.

[Frankie2Gunz]

35 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Tons of teams have drafted and developed a guy successfully, most recently the bills, chiefs, ravens among others. You are the one harping for a stable organization and good draft picks. You have to build a good foundation for a team for a QB to come in and succeed (unlike Carolina). We are clearly doing that by investing in the trenches in young players on both sides of the ball. You can't have it both ways.

100 percent I have been harping for a stable organization.  That starts with landing a great HC and GM who likes to build from the inside out.  I would hardly say this franchise has done any of this over the last 20 years as we have had the inverse of stability at HC/GM, our Oline is still a massive question and our D is totally unproven with limited talent outside of Maxx and Wilkins.  Our running game stinks, our CB's are playing out of position with no #1  and our collection of 1st/2nd round draft busts is still going strong (Wilson/Mayer).  If we can clean that up, solidify the Oline, land a #1 CB, draft a good RB and a #1 WR to replace the aging Adams, add a stud edge rusher next to Maxx we will be well suited for a young QB.  We still have work to do but consistency at HC and GM will start do wonders for this organization.

[Frankie2Gunz]

45 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

They had zero chance of winning the Super Bowl with a rookie QB. 

The plan is to draft a QB. It's that simple and it's that hard. Like the other 31 teams in the league who either have or hope to land their franchise QB. 

You're basically complaining because they didn't get one extra year to develop a rookie QB. What is the difference in drafting a QB in 2024 and 2025 really? Will that QB be better or worse having Brock Bowers on his team? 

 

The difference is that we had a chance to move up a few spots to land a potential franchise Qb and not have to mortgage the future to do so and we didn't even try.  There is no guarantee a QB will be on the board when we pick in 2025 nor is there a guarantee that a decent QB prospect will even be within striking distance. If we get desperate and trade multiple 1's to move up for a QB and the guy turns out to be Bryce Young would set this franchise back another 3 to 5 years.  That would be catastrophic....

Another wasted year in 2025 with our core getting one year closer to retirement and rolling out bums like Minchew or AOC will also be devastating.  

 

[Geezy]

36 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

100 percent I have been harping for a stable organization.  That starts with landing a great HC and GM who likes to build from the inside out.  I would hardly say this franchise has done any of this over the last 20 years as we have had the inverse of stability at HC/GM, our Oline is still a massive question and our D is totally unproven with limited talent outside of Maxx and Wilkins.  Our running game stinks, our CB's are playing out of position with no #1  and our collection of 1st/2nd round draft busts is still going strong (Wilson/Mayer).  If we can clean that up, solidify the Oline, land a #1 CB, draft a good RB and a #1 WR to replace the aging Adams, add a stud edge rusher next to Maxx we will be well suited for a young QB.  We still have work to do but consistency at HC and GM will start do wonders for this organization.

You’re contradicting yourself. You say we need a regime that builds a team from inside out. Our big FA was a DT. 2 of our top 3 picks were OL. You want a stable organization but are trying to replace promising young players that are developing within the same system. Our CBs may not be household names yet but are playing well, all still young on rookie deals and developing, same thing for Koonce. The guys you’re asking for just might be on the roster. Being a stable organization also requires patience. Adams wasn’t a #1 WR out the gate, he developed into one. Very few are studs out the gate like Bowers lol 

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

You have to keep the same coaching staff and system and have the quarterback grow within the system over years.

my number one thing is the quarterback should not start his rookie year.

Brady,  Rogers, Mahomes and Love all did not start right away.( that’s just off the top of my head)

Goff, sort of. Hurts, sort of. Lamar, sort of. Cousins. Eli. Rivers. 

Some of them started some games, but they weren't day 1 starters. 

I honestly can't think of many day 1 starters that panned out long term that have come out in a while. Ben Roethlisberger? I think Carr and Dak are probably two of the more recent ones that went on to have sustained success. One could add Lawrence now I suppose, and maybe Kyler? But yeah, usually the better approach is sitting them as rookies as long as possible, outliers like Stroud seeming to be more the exception than rule. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:38 AM by ronjon1990

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

100 percent I have been harping for a stable organization.  That starts with landing a great HC and GM who likes to build from the inside out.  I would hardly say this franchise has done any of this over the last 20 years 

I've been very transparent about having a lot of questions regarding the "how" and "why" we left the 2024 draft without a presumptive QBOTF, but I can't get on board with holding AP and Telesco accountable for or based on the last 20+ years of ineptitude. 

The issue here is I don't think you can accept that our HC and GM didn't come with a new QBOTF for any reason. That seems a bit rigid to me. 

Like I said, I have questions too. Did they try once Daniels was off the table? Did we make any real, serious, reasonable attempts to move up that got rebuffed? Were said offers realistic? Did they honestly believe in AOC or Minshew? Those are fair questions. 

But where I differ from your rigidity is I don't automatically see leaving 2024's draft without a QB as an automatic failure. If Tom Telesco called me and said "Hey, we offered Adams and 13 to the Jets and they weren't selling", that's tough luck, but they tried. Every question I have about how things went, there is a logical and reasonable answer to. Whether that logical or reasonable answer is the reality, none of us are likely to ever know, but it can be accounted for regardless. I gotta say, it feels to me you're sort of unwilling to accept that maybe it just didn't bounce that way- and that's going as AWOL as the guys who simply accept every move made as the greatest move ever made. 

Is there any answer for AP and Telesco not getting a QBOTF this past Draft that you'd accept? 

[Frankie2Gunz]

34 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I've been very transparent about having a lot of questions regarding the "how" and "why" we left the 2024 draft without a presumptive QBOTF, but I can't get on board with holding AP and Telesco accountable for or based on the last 20+ years of ineptitude. 

The issue here is I don't think you can accept that our HC and GM didn't come with a new QBOTF for any reason. That seems a bit rigid to me. 

Like I said, I have questions too. Did they try once Daniels was off the table? Did we make any real, serious, reasonable attempts to move up that got rebuffed? Were said offers realistic? Did they honestly believe in AOC or Minshew? Those are fair questions. 

But where I differ from your rigidity is I don't automatically see leaving 2024's draft without a QB as an automatic failure. If Tom Telesco called me and said "Hey, we offered Adams and 13 to the Jets and they weren't selling", that's tough luck, but they tried. Every question I have about how things went, there is a logical and reasonable answer to. Whether that logical or reasonable answer is the reality, none of us are likely to ever know, but it can be accounted for regardless. I gotta say, it feels to me you're sort of unwilling to accept that maybe it just didn't bounce that way- and that's going as AWOL as the guys who simply accept every move made as the greatest move ever made. 

Is there any answer for AP and Telesco not getting a QBOTF this past Draft that you'd accept? 

Absolutely and I didn't expect the QB position to be addressed in one offseason but I did expect them to make a legitimate attempt to address it which they never did.  I was never a fan of mortgaging the future (trading multiple 1's) for a QBOTF but what bothers me is that there was an opportunity to move up to 10 to address this issue, with not much risked in terms of draft capital and by all accounts we never even gave it a shot.  Trading up a few spots for a potential QBOTF and not trading multiple 1's to do so is getting good value in my opinion.  Let's say we traded 13, a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year to get JJ and he turns out to be a bust.  That move is not catastrophic, might not get a GM fired and will not cripple this franchise for many years to come. If he turns out to be a star you're a GM for the next decade.  That is the kind of risk a savvy GM makes.  A foolish GM trades multiple 1's for a QB and the guy turns out to be a bust which is usually a death blow for any GM/HC not named Lynch or KS. If you make a trade like that as a GM you better be 100 percent certain that player is a superstar and not Mitch Trashbinsky or else you GM career is over. 

I can accept that AP and TT didn't leave this draft without a QB but what bothers me is the exact scenario I had talked about throughout the draft process and that was if JJ hit pick 10 we needed to give our best effort to land him.  The trade up could have been made with not much lost in draft capital but we didn't even try.  

What also bothers me about their approach is they think this team can contend with Minchew or AOC.  I think both of those guys are backups and the season is essentially wasted with either of them starting.  Wasted seasons in the NFL are catastrophic and the fact they are content rolling into the season with either of those two bums is a concern.  What is concerning is that there is also a chance both of those guys could be QB's 1 and 2 heading into next season as well.  Another concern is both AP and TT have a down season and are feeling the heat during the offseason, make a desperate move in an attempt to save their careers by trading multiple 1's for their QBOTF, the guy busts and it the next GM's problem for three years with no 1st... rinse and repeat until we land a superstar QB.  All you have to do is ask Browns and Jets fans how lengthy of a process that can be.

i can potentially add more to this tomorrow but I am getting tired and my brain is shutting off lol.  In a nutshell those those are the bulk of my concerns with a few more that I may ramble on about tomorrow...

[MrOaktown_56]

28 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Absolutely and I didn't expect the QB position to be addressed in one offseason but I did expect them to make a legitimate attempt to address it which they never did.  I was never a fan of mortgaging the future (trading multiple 1's) for a QBOTF but what bothers me is that there was an opportunity to move up to 10 to address this issue, with not much risked in terms of draft capital and by all accounts we never even gave it a shot.  Trading up a few spots for a potential QBOTF and not trading multiple 1's to do so is getting good value in my opinion.  Let's say we traded 13, a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year to get JJ and he turns out to be a bust.  That move is not catastrophic, might not get a GM fired and will not cripple this franchise for many years to come. If he turns out to be a star you're a GM for the next decade.  That is the kind of risk a savvy GM makes.  A foolish GM trades multiple 1's for a QB and the guy turns out to be a bust which is usually a death blow for any GM/HC not named Lynch or KS. If you make a trade like that as a GM you better be 100 percent certain that player is a superstar and not Mitch Trashbinsky or else you GM career is over. 

I can accept that AP and TT didn't leave this draft without a QB but what bothers me is the exact scenario I had talked about throughout the draft process and that was if JJ hit pick 10 we needed to give our best effort to land him.  The trade up could have been made with not much lost in draft capital but we didn't even try.  

What also bothers me about their approach is they think this team can contend with Minchew or AOC.  I think both of those guys are backups and the season is essentially wasted with either of them starting.  Wasted seasons in the NFL are catastrophic and the fact they are content rolling into the season with either of those two bums is a concern.  What is concerning is that there is also a chance both of those guys could be QB's 1 and 2 heading into next season as well.  Another concern is both AP and TT have a down season and are feeling the heat during the offseason, make a desperate move in an attempt to save their careers by trading multiple 1's for their QBOTF, the guy busts and it the next GM's problem for three years with no 1st... rinse and repeat until we land a superstar QB.  All you have to do is ask Browns and Jets fans how lengthy of a process that can be.

i can potentially add more to this tomorrow but I am getting tired and my brain is shutting off lol.  In a nutshell those those are the bulk of my concerns with a few more that I may ramble on about tomorrow...

Who said we are competing rn? We are building up the trenches with young players on both sides and adding weapons for our future qb.

[MrOaktown_56]

6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

100 percent I have been harping for a stable organization.  That starts with landing a great HC and GM who likes to build from the inside out.  I would hardly say this franchise has done any of this over the last 20 years as we have had the inverse of stability at HC/GM, our Oline is still a massive question and our D is totally unproven with limited talent outside of Maxx and Wilkins.  Our running game stinks, our CB's are playing out of position with no #1  and our collection of 1st/2nd round draft busts is still going strong (Wilson/Mayer).  If we can clean that up, solidify the Oline, land a #1 CB, draft a good RB and a #1 WR to replace the aging Adams, add a stud edge rusher next to Maxx we will be well suited for a young QB.  We still have work to do but consistency at HC and GM will start do wonders for this organization.

What you're asking for is unrealistic. Our corners are playing fantastic. Koonce is a very good #2 edge. We just need a few more key hits and a QB. This team is much closer than you're giving them credit for.

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Absolutely and I didn't expect the QB position to be addressed in one offseason but I did expect them to make a legitimate attempt to address it which they never did.  I was never a fan of mortgaging the future (trading multiple 1's) for a QBOTF but what bothers me is that there was an opportunity to move up to 10 to address this issue, with not much risked in terms of draft capital and by all accounts we never even gave it a shot.  Trading up a few spots for a potential QBOTF and not trading multiple 1's to do so is getting good value in my opinion.  Let's say we traded 13, a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year to get JJ and he turns out to be a bust.  That move is not catastrophic, might not get a GM fired and will not cripple this franchise for many years to come. If he turns out to be a star you're a GM for the next decade.  That is the kind of risk a savvy GM makes.  A foolish GM trades multiple 1's for a QB and the guy turns out to be a bust which is usually a death blow for any GM/HC not named Lynch or KS. If you make a trade like that as a GM you better be 100 percent certain that player is a superstar and not Mitch Trashbinsky or else you GM career is over. 

I can accept that AP and TT didn't leave this draft without a QB but what bothers me is the exact scenario I had talked about throughout the draft process and that was if JJ hit pick 10 we needed to give our best effort to land him.  The trade up could have been made with not much lost in draft capital but we didn't even try.  

What also bothers me about their approach is they think this team can contend with Minchew or AOC.  I think both of those guys are backups and the season is essentially wasted with either of them starting.  Wasted seasons in the NFL are catastrophic and the fact they are content rolling into the season with either of those two bums is a concern.  What is concerning is that there is also a chance both of those guys could be QB's 1 and 2 heading into next season as well.  Another concern is both AP and TT have a down season and are feeling the heat during the offseason, make a desperate move in an attempt to save their careers by trading multiple 1's for their QBOTF, the guy busts and it the next GM's problem for three years with no 1st... rinse and repeat until we land a superstar QB.  All you have to do is ask Browns and Jets fans how lengthy of a process that can be.

i can potentially add more to this tomorrow but I am getting tired and my brain is shutting off lol.  In a nutshell those those are the bulk of my concerns with a few more that I may ramble on about tomorrow...

Your problem, you continue to believe they could have made a small affordable trade up for a QB. Worse, with no evidence what so ever you insist they didn't even try. And the cherry on top, you keep repeating it ad nauseam.

Let's try this another way.... Tell us exactly how the Raiders were going to outbid Minnesota to move up to #10 with Minnesota having a higher pick, an additional first round pick and higher picks in every subsequent round. Answer that questions.....