What are you expectations for rookie Bo?

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

See, I have actually been surprised by the level of his physical traits. He's a definite plus athlete with his legs, and some of his throws (even in the 3rd level) have had some zing on them.

Unfortunately, it's the opposite for some his supposed strengths, i.e accuracy, pre-snap reads, taking care of the football. 

If Bo fails in Denver, I would be floored if it's because of physical limitations.

His arm talent though is quite average.   Yes he has some zing, but he doesn't have the lightning quick-release on those throws (which is how defenders catch up on his scrambles), and as you mentioned, his accuracy on intermediate - deep balls is definitely an issue.   Ppl forget that in Oregon, the ADOT on throws was incredibly low.   He was a rhythm / timing / short-intermediate area QB.    Watching him miss the short-intermediate throws, though, is an eye opener.    Still, part of what worried me is that his arm talent isn't special, or even close.   Athleticism is good, but it doesn't translate to special arm talent. 

He's straight-line fast, but he doesn't make guys miss in the pocket at the NFL level.  If he has a lane, or he gets outside, for sure he can make D's pay, but he's not this master of elusiveness.   Worse, his feel for pressure, and ability to move in the pocket to create time and keep eyes up, is non-existent right now.      I know we couldn't sniff him at our draft spot, but in terms of running & elusiveness & pocket presence, Drake Maye has a better skill set there, even if he isn't quite as straight-line fast as Nix (Maye's footwork on the other hand, really needs to get cleaned up, but that's a very fixable problem). 

As for Nix's pre-snap reads and cerebral skills, he's had over 80+ college games, at the SEC level, and running up-tempo, quick-read O in Oregon.    They should be better than they are - which is concerning.    It's by no means a lost cause, but having a late breakout (he was bad in Auburn), there's always a potential flag that the jump in competition is going to be an issue.   Late college success such a solid predictor of capped ceiling, even more so for QB's.   Joe Burrow is literally the only modern era example, and back then, you had to redshirt if you transferred, so he lost 3 years to redshirt / bench / transfer, so there's a ton of context you don't see with QB's in this era.   

Bo Nix has been used to being a plus athlete and being able to exploit college-level talent.   The speed of the NFL is definitely catching up to him - the TO's he's created (and the TO-worthy plays in SEA that were dropped by the defenders) were all plays he likely could get away with college, but has no chance in the NFL.    Hopefully he learns quickly on that front.   That in theory is very fixable.    The throwing limitations, esp if accuracy is a problem, are definitely worrisome.   But no, it's not lack of athleticism, just that athleticism doesn't really translate to special arm talent. 
 

Edited Tuesday at 03:45 PM by Broncofan

[The Helicopter]

Is Green Bay the only team that has their QBOTF ride the pine 3 years before naming them the starter? They've acclimated their fanbase to that premise...ours is set to shake and bake...it's frustrating. 

[broncosfan_101]

46 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

Is Green Bay the only team that has their QBOTF ride the pine 3 years before naming them the starter? They've acclimated their fanbase to that premise...ours is set to shake and bake...it's frustrating. 

I personally hate GB’s process with QB’s. Spending a 1st rounder in the middle of Aaron Rodgers’ prime on a player that will never ever benefit Aaron Rodgers is a gigantic mistake. That’s a business decision. ‘We’d rather make sure we’re very good every year than spend every possible resource becoming great for a 2 year window.’ Puke. We did it when we signed Peyton Manning, Atlanta just did it with Cousins/Penix. It’s not how you compete for Super Bowls. 

[broncosfan_101]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

As for Nix's pre-snap reads and cerebral skills, he's had over 80+ college games, at the SEC level, and running up-tempo, quick-read O in Oregon.    They should be better than they are - which is concerning.    It's by no means a lost cause, but having a late breakout (he was bad in Auburn), there's always a potential flag that the jump in competition is going to be an issue.   Late college success such a solid predictor of capped ceiling, even more so for QB's.   Joe Burrow is literally the only modern era example, and back then, you had to redshirt if you transferred, so he lost 3 years to redshirt / bench / transfer, so there's a ton of context you don't see with QB's in this era.   

Bo Nix has been used to being a plus athlete and being able to exploit college-level talent.   The speed of the NFL is definitely catching up to him - the TO's he's created (and the TO-worthy plays in SEA that were dropped by the defenders) were all plays he likely could get away with college, but has no chance in the NFL.    Hopefully he learns quickly on that front.   That in theory is very fixable.    The throwing limitations, esp if accuracy is a problem, are definitely worrisome.   But no, it's not lack of athleticism, just that athleticism doesn't really translate to special arm talent. 
 

I really think this could turn into a thing, you guys. In the past, guys spent their age 20-22 years working into NCAA speed. Bo, and it’s becoming more common across football it seems, really made his progress at age 23-24. It just has to be more difficult to speed up to NFL pace at 25 years old than at 23. And with 60+ games of reps, that muscle memory is DEEP. He plateaued at some point at Oregon. After that many games, he had to. But most education theory shows that once you plateau, it’s much harder to teach your brain to push past that as opposed to continuing to learn in a more linear fashion. 

[The Helicopter]

45 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

I personally hate GB’s process with QB’s. Spending a 1st rounder in the middle of Aaron Rodgers’ prime on a player that will never ever benefit Aaron Rodgers is a gigantic mistake. That’s a business decision. ‘We’d rather make sure we’re very good every year than spend every possible resource becoming great for a 2 year window.’ Puke. We did it when we signed Peyton Manning, Atlanta just did it with Cousins/Penix. It’s not how you compete for Super Bowls. 

But when you don't "hit" on your QB you waste all your other draft picks who do nothing but wait around. Not to mention you keeps using draft picks to find said QB, year after year. Then there's change in HC, GM, assistant coaches...zero stability. I still think their method is working out well/better. We, like most teams, are in a terrible cycle.

Edited Tuesday at 06:40 PM by The Helicopter

[jolly red giant]

As I said elsewhere - when you have a rookie QB and your top rusher has 25 yards and is said rookie QB - the entire offence sucks - and in that situation you cannot possibly evaluate a QB. Is it looking good - no - but nothing to do with the offence looks good at the moment.

[broncosfan_101]

1 hour ago, The Helicopter said:

But when you don't "hit" on your QB you waste all your other draft picks who do nothing but wait around. Not to mention you keeps using draft picks to find said QB, year after year. Then there's change in HC, GM, assistant coaches...zero stability. I still think their method is working out well/better. We, like most teams, are in a terrible cycle.

Personally, I’d take 8-10 years of spinning our wheels for a 2-3 year window of being legit Super Bowl contenders, but I absolutely don’t blame anyone who would rather aim for being consistently good. I can see the draw to cheering for a team like the Steelers: rarely a real threat at a playoff run, but also always .500 or better. 

[The Helicopter]

30 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Personally, I’d take 8-10 years of spinning our wheels for a 2-3 year window of being legit Super Bowl contenders, but I absolutely don’t blame anyone who would rather aim for being consistently good. I can see the draw to cheering for a team like the Steelers: rarely a real threat at a playoff run, but also always .500 or better. 

The Steelers are an interesting organization. They seem to live in a 3rd reality. They are stable with their defense and coaching and are waiting to hit on a QB...and ok waiting...When it hits, they are perennial SB contenders. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

I've heard some talk the last two days about all the different personnel groups Sean has been using, especially on offense, and how that might have affected Nix and the offense as a whole. Sean even remarked that he might change that up this week. I think a big part of it is Sean and the staff just trying to figure out what they have. They are still relatively new, we have quite a few new players and a lot of young players filling key roles, especially at the skill positions. This should sort itself out over time. 

A couple weeks ago I remarked how Belichick said many times that due to the limited player contact (not physical contact, though that's a part of it, but player/coach contact), shorter training camp practices, fewer preseason games, etc., that it's hard to really know who your team is the first 3 or 4 games of the season. I think that is very applicable in this team's case, given the aforementioned youth and just overall newness of the whole roster and coaching staff. 

[grizmo78]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I've heard some talk the last two days about all the different personnel groups Sean has been using, especially on offense, and how that might have affected Nix and the offense as a whole. Sean even remarked that he might change that up this week. I think a big part of it is Sean and the staff just trying to figure out what they have. They are still relatively new, we have quite a few new players and a lot of young players filling key roles, especially at the skill positions. This should sort itself out over time. 

A couple weeks ago I remarked how Belichick said many times that due to the limited player contact (not physical contact, though that's a part of it, but player/coach contact), shorter training camp practices, fewer preseason games, etc., that it's hard to really know who your team is the first 3 or 4 games of the season. I think that is very applicable in this team's case, given the aforementioned youth and just overall newness of the whole roster and coaching staff. 

Maybe i'm just being a downer but I'm struggling to have much optimism right now. I agree that it can take time to learn your personnel but the position group that was supposed to be solid was our highly invested O-line. Payton has mentioned it multiple times that the best way to protect any quarterback let alone a rookie QB is a good defense (they've been holding up their end) and a good running game. Not only have we been terrible running the ball, but Payton has refused to stick with it or adjust the scheme, formations, or players. I would be a lot happier with a 3rd and 4 where we ran the ball than throwing it 40 times a game. I'm going on a tangent with that though. I'm trying to get at our O-line has had consistency for over a year now and are being top of the line money to crap the bed. That's the part that makes me feel doomsday. The rest I can justify and understand needing to give time. 

[AKRNA]

42 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

Maybe i'm just being a downer but I'm struggling to have much optimism right now. I agree that it can take time to learn your personnel but the position group that was supposed to be solid was our highly invested O-line. Payton has mentioned it multiple times that the best way to protect any quarterback let alone a rookie QB is a good defense (they've been holding up their end) and a good running game. Not only have we been terrible running the ball, but Payton has refused to stick with it or adjust the scheme, formations, or players. I would be a lot happier with a 3rd and 4 where we ran the ball than throwing it 40 times a game. I'm going on a tangent with that though. I'm trying to get at our O-line has had consistency for over a year now and are being top of the line money to crap the bed. That's the part that makes me feel doomsday. The rest I can justify and understand needing to give time. 

Hows Wattenberg working out?

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, grizmo78 said:

Maybe i'm just being a downer but I'm struggling to have much optimism right now. I agree that it can take time to learn your personnel but the position group that was supposed to be solid was our highly invested O-line. Payton has mentioned it multiple times that the best way to protect any quarterback let alone a rookie QB is a good defense (they've been holding up their end) and a good running game. Not only have we been terrible running the ball, but Payton has refused to stick with it or adjust the scheme, formations, or players. I would be a lot happier with a 3rd and 4 where we ran the ball than throwing it 40 times a game. I'm going on a tangent with that though. I'm trying to get at our O-line has had consistency for over a year now and are being top of the line money to crap the bed. That's the part that makes me feel doomsday. The rest I can justify and understand needing to give time. 

Paying for FA instead of going through the draft to rebuild the OL (mainly because we traded away a 1st to get Payton) was such a poor move.  Hindsight 20-20 but neither Powers nor McGlinchy have justified the big $ outlay.  They're both bad at pass pro, and haven't really been road graders in the run game as advertised when they signed.    

Payton's love for beef, and size....at the expense of agility, really shows in our OL & WR.   I get you can't be all finesse especially in the trenches, but it's pretty much come home to roost with both McGlinchy & Powers.  In Powers' case, it was pretty clear he thrived with a cohesive OL...on an island, not so much.   Sigh.

Edited yesterday at 12:54 AM by Broncofan

[grizmo78]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Paying for FA instead of going through the draft to rebuild the OL (mainly because we traded away a 1st to get Payton) was such a poor move.  Hindsight 20-20 but neither Powers nor McGlinchy have justified the big $ outlay.  They're both bad at pass pro, and haven't really been road graders in pass pro.    

Payton's love for beef, and size....at the expense of agility, really shows in our OL & WR.   I get you can't be all finesse especially in the trenches, but it's pretty much come home to roost with both McGlinchy & Powers.  In Powers' case, it was pretty clear he thrived with a cohesive OL...on an island, not so much.   Sigh.

Agreed. Even home grown Meinerz has been disappointing this year though. I would say Bolles is the only one on that line that has performed to what we expected. That unit was supposed to be our best unit group and insulate some of the ancillary issues our team was going to face but instead it's just as bad as the rest of them. 

[germ-x]

7 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

I personally hate GB’s process with QB’s. Spending a 1st rounder in the middle of Aaron Rodgers’ prime on a player that will never ever benefit Aaron Rodgers is a gigantic mistake. That’s a business decision. ‘We’d rather make sure we’re very good every year than spend every possible resource becoming great for a 2 year window.’ Puke. We did it when we signed Peyton Manning, Atlanta just did it with Cousins/Penix. It’s not how you compete for Super Bowls. 

I disagree with this.  Green Bay is the gold standard for QB play over the last 35 or so years, assuming Love is the real deal.

We are talking 3 QBs since 1992 and winning season after winning season.  Also drafting Rodgers and sitting him 3 years and doing the same with Love are 2 picks out of 35 years worth of drafts, that’s not the reason they aren’t winning SBs.  You can hindsight 20/20 that if they’d not have drafted Love and drafted (pick your player) they’d have won, but reality is they probably wouldn’t.

I’ll take having a franchise QB/HOFer sitting the first 3 years of their career every single damn day over what the broncos have been for the last decade.

[germ-x]

Green Bay has had 5 losing seasons since 1992 when they acquired Brett Favre.  By NFL standards that is absolutely insane and part of that is they have had elite QB play since 1992.