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Shylo3716

Cleveland Browns Draft Scenarios

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15 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Peterson had injury concerns which were overblown, but was the legit reason why he slid. Also that draft had a ton of other blue chippers in it at the top which pushed him down.

Barkley should destroy the combine from everything I’ve heard and seen. I agree people anoint a RB every year as the new “once in a generation RB,” but this time it’s warranted. I ranked the RBs in of the last 10 years as such:

Barkley

Gurley

Fournette

Elliot

 

those are the only guys that I have seen in the last 10 years that warranted top 5 selections in their respective draft classes. Barkley is at the top of that list. And to be honest, I liked Elliot, but saw him as significantly below the other three in terms of transcendent talents. Barkley is going to change a teams fortunes as a rookie of you have halfway competent blocking. 

You are right on about the reason Peterson slipped, I'll give you that, but I question your RB rankings. Elliot was the best for me by quite a bit, not only a great runner, but a solid blocker as well.

Saying Barkley should destroy the Combine is one thing, actually doing it is quite another, I'm keeping an open mind till I see the meat, then I will pass judgement on his overall talent. The post season draft process has to take place before I start anointing people, I've been a draftnik for 65 years and have seen too much to give a lot of weight based strictly on film. Film can be deceiving when you are judging a prospect's speed and physical talent, because most of the guys around him can be quite slow/weak and not be NFL prospects in any sense, you need the Combine to really evaluate a prospects speed/physical ability!!!

You also have to factor in that teams are very reluctant to draft a secondary position in the top 10 of the draft where primary difference makers are mainly found and RB in the current NFL, is considered a secondary position considering that most NFL teams only run the ball around 33% of the time.

You look at guys like Hunt and it takes real balls for a GM to draft a RB high in round 1!!!

 

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29 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

And why does Barkley running a 4.4 thrust him up that much for you? He runs away from everyone on tape. If physical traits are keeping you from being sold on Saquon, I don’t know what to tell you. He’s a freak. 

Running away from college players is one thing, being able to do it against pros who have excellent speed, is quite another, you either have elite speed or you don't and if you don't, you will be limited at the next level, that is why every GM, scout and HC time every prospect at the combine for themselves. They have all been at it a long time and know what real speed means???

Judging speed off of film is a slippery slope, because most of the players around him , simply are not close to being a NFL prospect and may be quite slow, giving the appearance that Barkley is quite fast, when in fact, it can turn out that he was simply faster than a bunch of slow college players??? That's why the NFL holds the Combine!!!

We'll see if he is a freak, but only the Combine can answer that and if he is such a freak, why is Guice rated so close to him by most reports??? Seems to me that people throw these terms around without any real substantial facts, which the Senior Bowl, Pro Days and the Combine give us. Till then, he is just a potential freak for me at least.

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6 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Why would the Giants trade up when they will get either Darold or Rosen, just by sitting there?????

First, Rosen's injury record will make it impossible for him to pass Darnold in the draft and besides that, those on NFL.com love Darnold along with a # of NFL GM's, so Darnold is going to be the 1st QB off the board. Second, The Browns have no way of knowing what the prognosis is on Luck's injury and whether or not he can ever return as the player he was, so Indy may well just take a QB at #3. The Giants will take Rosen at #2 and the Browns will end up with no QB. Even if Indy trades the pick to a QB desperate team, the Browns will have to settle for the # 3 QB in the draft, a scenario, I simply cannot believe they would ever consider. they will draft the #1 QB on their board, after all, it is the most important position on a football team by a mile!!!

I can guarantee you, that the Brown's owner will absolutely insist that they take a QB #1 overall in the draft, their GM will have no choice in that scenario.

As for drafting Barkley at #2, where have all you people been for the last 15 years??? The # of RB in this passing era that have gone top 5 in the draft = zero. even Peterson lasted till the #6 pick!!! The chances of Barkley getting picked in the top 5 is rather slim, especially since according to scouts on NFL.com, Guice is rated closely behind him, which makes me think that perhaps Barkley is simply being overrated at this point and until he proves to be sensational at the Combine, he has no chance to go top 5???

I am guessing you skipped the last two drafts altogether, where there have been not one, but two RBs drafted in the top 5. You can cite NFL.com as a source, or just watch them. Guice is a good back, but it is a pretty large margin between the two. As far as athletically, I have very few doubts that Barkley will test much better as well, he is already pretty famous for being the strongest guy in the weight room at penn state, in a locker room with many 300+ pounders. 

 

fwiw, i would take darnold number 1, but the best player in this draft is more than likely barkley.

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I understand the fact AP fell to 6 but it all depends on the draft as a whole. LF was BPA last year at 4 in a fairly weak class. It all depends

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10 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

The # of RB in this passing era that have gone top 5 in the draft = zero.

Ezekiel Elliot AND Leonard Fournette went #4 overall. Neither team seems to be disappointed with that selection.

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9 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

if he is such a freak, why is Guice rated so close to him by most reports???

Because Guice is good too. But you know how many teams would consider taking Guice in the top 10? ZERO. Whereas every NFL team would at least consider Barkley in the top 10. The two prospects are not even close in terms of ability and you won't find a single report from a fully chromosomed individual that has Guice ahead of Barkley. To say Barkley is the #1 prospect and Guice is the #5 prospect doesn't mean they're close if this is what you're referring to. I'd like to see "most reports" that you speak of where Guice and Barkley are so close. Guice is a nice player, but he can't even sniff Barkley's schweaty jock strap and 99.9% of people would tell you the same thing. The other .1% being Guice and his family members, who would be lying.

 

2-3 years ago (can't remember) I had Todd Gurley as the #1 prospect and Duke Johnson as the #9 prospect in that draft class. The two were not in the same stratosphere as runningbacks, but you could say that they were "close" to one another. It's not the same thing. Runningbacks tend to be very high on my list of prospects because they're easy to scout and translate. There are usually a bunch of good ones and there is less projection necessary. Would I always take the #1 guy on my board at #1? No, because I don't factor in positional importance. The difference between Barkley and Guice is even factoring in positional importance (which is poor), Barkley has a case to go #1. He's that good. Derrius Guice being discussed at #1 would make people laugh and/or vomit. Being close in player rankings means nothing when it comes time to actually draft these dudes. Guice might not even go in the 1st round. Barkley won't make it out of the top 5.

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3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Ezekiel Elliot AND Leonard Fournette went #4 overall. Neither team seems to be disappointed with that selection.

Yea it all depends on the options you have. I honestly dont know who else we would have taken. Watson was wildly considered not a Top-5 pick, there were no OL worth it so we took someone that was deemed special. 

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14 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Ezekiel Elliot AND Leonard Fournette went #4 overall. Neither team seems to be disappointed with that selection.

Both of those teams lack a true franchise QB and made a decision to revert to old time football, where running the ball became their #1 offensive option. If Cleveland drafts Darnold at #1, they are not going to be a running team like Dallas or Jacksonville are, their main offensive attack will come through the air and a great RB is a luxury, a losing team like Cleveland cannot not afford to draft with the #4th overall pick, especially when you can find a Hunt later in the draft. WR's will be far more important in their attack than a RB and a solid pass blocking OL as well.

Personally, I would love to see a return to running the ball as as the NFL main form of attack and it may well be coming, because current NFL defenses are designed strictly to stop the pass at all costs, as a result, defenses have been drafting faster, quicker and smaller players to defend it, players who are often a liability against the run.

Given Dallas and Jacksonville's success, we could see a lot more team go that route, especially teams that lack a true franchise QB, I believe OC's are moving in that direction as every generation gets to see huge changes in the priorities of OC's and DC's

Look, did not get me wrong, Barkley may well demonstrate at the Combine that he is everything you say he is and may also get drafted pretty high, but I just do not think it is a wise move on the Brown's part, especially if they are going to throw the ball 65-70% of the time with a great franchise QB, teams with great QB's can get by with solid RB's, they do not need superstars at the position, see NE!!!

Passing attackers are still winning the SB's and till a Dallas or a Jacksonville show they can get there, a passing attack will still remain the norm and that makes Barkley a talent not needed on great passing teams. He would never see the ball enough with Cleveland to become that great!!!

As for Gurley, everybody loved his talent, but injuries dropped him severely on draft day and as Goff develops, Gurley will see less and less of the ball!!!

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20 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

Both of those teams lack a true franchise QB and made a decision to revert to old time football, where running the ball became their #1 offensive option. If Cleveland drafts Darnold at #1, they are not going to be a running team like Dallas or Jacksonville are, their main offensive attack will come through the air and a great RB is a luxury, a losing team like Cleveland cannot not afford to draft with the #4th overall pick, especially when you can find a Hunt later in the draft. WR's will be far more important in their attack than a RB and a solid pass blocking OL as well.

Personally, I would love to see a return to running the ball as as the NFL main form of attack and it may well be coming, because current NFL defenses are designed strictly to stop the pass at all costs, as a result, defenses have been drafting faster, quicker and smaller players to defend it, players who are often a liability against the run.

Given Dallas and Jacksonville's success, we could see a lot more team go that route, especially teams that lack a true franchise QB, I believe OC's are moving in that direction as every generation gets to see huge changes in the priorities of OC's and DC's

Look, did not get me wrong, Barkley may well demonstrate at the Combine that he is everything you say he is and may also get drafted pretty high, but I just do not think it is a wise move on the Brown's part, especially if they are going to throw the ball 65-70% of the time with a great franchise QB, teams with great QB's can get by with solid RB's, they do not need superstars at the position, see NE!!!

Passing attackers are still winning the SB's and till a Dallas or a Jacksonville show they can get there, a passing attack will still remain the norm and that makes Barkley a talent not needed on great passing teams. He would never see the ball enough with Cleveland to become that great!!!

As for Gurley, everybody loved his talent, but injuries dropped him severely on draft day and as Goff develops, Gurley will see less and less of the ball!!!

I highly doubt the Rams will run Gurley less if he's still having this much success down the line. NFL OC's aren't stupid. They're going to use whatever is working. If the Browns draft both Darnold and Barkley and both are elite studs, Barkley will still get 20-25 touches a game and be totally worth his top 5 draft status. Sure the passing game is a bigger part of the NFL than before. But it doesn't mean having a supreme RB is going to be a waste. It's just another weapon that will improve a QB's play action. Plus Barkley is the ultimate checkdown back in passing situations. Teams will have to respect him out of the backfield and pull their zones down to the flat. This will help WR's create in the intermediate range. I do not agree with any of your arguments on Barkley.

Also, if teams could just identify the league's leading rusher (Kareem Hunt) in every draft class, he would go in the top 10 every year. It's not as simple as just "finding the next Kareem Hunt." There aren't elite RB's just growing on trees in the later rounds. Some solid ones, sure. But the elite guys are going to go early and every once in a blue moon you'll find that elite back in the later rounds. By the way, I think Barkley runs circles around Kareem Hunt even knowing what Hunt has done in his rookie season.

Passing attacks do win Super Bowls. I'm not saying we should take Barkley and an OT with our first two picks. We have to go QB at #1 and I agree with you there 100%. But once we have identified our "franchise QB", we need to think about getting more playmakers on our offense. Barkley is the top playmaker in this draft class. I don't see how that is a poor selection. You seem to be arguing that it's a waste even if he's an elite runningback. That seems insane to me.

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I’m not convinced on any of the top QBs in this draft.  Each one of them has a significant bust factor. Josh Rosen has character and injury issues, Sam Darnold is raw with accuracy and fumble issues, Josh Allen has accuracies issues and significantly less production compared to the other top QBs, Baker Mayfield has character issues and played on a stacked roster, Lamar Jackson is undersized with a run first mentality.

If I were running the Browns I would sign a veteran QB (Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum) and sign one of the top WRs available to start over Corey Coleman (Allen Robinson, Sammy Watkins, Michael Crabtree, Jarvis Landry).  Then in the draft I would trade out of the #1 pick and then take BPA from there whether it’s Barkley of defense.  There are a ton of defensive studs at the top of this draft and they can draft whichever top QB falls later in the draft.  Between Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, and Mason Rudolph I’m fairly certain that 2-3 of them will fall to the end of the 1st or start of the 2nd where the Browns can move around to get their guy.  They can then develop which ever QB they draft with Kizer behind their new veteran QB.  One of those three QBs (Veteran, Kizer, and Rookie) should be able to develop into a solid starter and if that doesn’t work then they can bring in AJ McCarron next year.

If the Jaguars can win with Blake Bortles then the Browns should be able to win with a dominant defense to.  If they trade out of the #1 pick then they will realistically have enough ammo to draft their QB at the top of the 2nd round and three of the following guys in the 1st round Saquon Barkley, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James, Arden Key, Bradley Chubb, Roquon Smith, Joshua Jackson, Denzel Ward, Christian Wilkins, BPA OL, etc.

The Browns could have a legendary defense and still have weapons on offense!

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:59 AM, Iamcanadian said:

Running away from college players is one thing, being able to do it against pros who have excellent speed, is quite another, you either have elite speed or you don't and if you don't, you will be limited at the next level, that is why every GM, scout and HC time every prospect at the combine for themselves. They have all been at it a long time and know what real speed means???

Judging speed off of film is a slippery slope, because most of the players around him , simply are not close to being a NFL prospect and may be quite slow, giving the appearance that Barkley is quite fast, when in fact, it can turn out that he was simply faster than a bunch of slow college players??? That's why the NFL holds the Combine!!!

We'll see if he is a freak, but only the Combine can answer that and if he is such a freak, why is Guice rated so close to him by most reports??? Seems to me that people throw these terms around without any real substantial facts, which the Senior Bowl, Pro Days and the Combine give us. Till then, he is just a potential freak for me at least.

Lmao....How is it that these slow players he played against were 7-1 in bowl games this year? or better yet, blazed my team tOSU his whole career and all we do is recruit speed. Terrible take bro, so I take it you don't believe the fire is hot until you get burned by it?

 

On a separate note, Like I said before a while ago, his lower body explosion is as good as we've seen in a prospect in a long time, his numbers will be absolutely nuts, his vertical will probably we like a 40 - 42, his broad jump will easily be 11', and he will crack a 4.3, probably around 4.38. Dude power cleans over 405 and squats 650 that's all lower body explosion , its safe to call dude a freak.

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2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Lmao....How is it that these slow players he played against were 7-1 in bowl games this year? or better yet, blazed my team tOSU his whole career and all we do is recruit speed. Terrible take bro, so I take it you don't believe the fire is hot until you get burned by it?

 

On a separate note, Like I said before a while ago, his lower body explosion is as good as we've seen in a prospect in a long time, his numbers will be absolutely nuts, his vertical will probably we like a 40 - 42, his broad jump will easily be 11', and he will crack a 4.3, probably around 4.38. Dude power cleans over 405 and squats 650 that's all lower body explosion , its safe to call dude a freak.

I don't think Barkley's that fast. He doesn't seem faster than Zeke or Gurley or Fournette. Short area explosion will be lethal but pure speed?....nah. I don't think he'll crack 4.4. More like 4.5-4.55.

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26 minutes ago, BrownLeader said:

I don't think Barkley's that fast. He doesn't seem faster than Zeke or Gurley or Fournette. Short area explosion will be lethal but pure speed?....nah. I don't think he'll crack 4.4. More like 4.5-4.55.

Thats fine, with no pads on, and an offseason to train specifically for the 40,I see it. 4.38-4.42 

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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