incognito_man Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: How many pass rushing reps does Lowry get a game? When I've seen Irving rush for the Cowboys, and admittedly, that isn't all that often, but he looks to be an interior rusher, Lawrence is usually an end. And Charlton as an end. I do not feel that Irving is in the same class of athlete as Peppers (saw that comp here...elephant end). I don't even think he is a Nick Perry. While I do like that player, I do not like him as things currently are in GB. Now, if a new DC comes in with a new scheme...then I can get on board with adding a player like him. If he gets one it's too many. I just don't think you can have enough pass rushers in your front 7 at ANY position. Daniels didn't excel this year, get him in a rotation. I think we badly need another interior rush guy in 2018. Someone who makes Lowry a game-day inactive or a 5 rep guy on rushing downs. Someone who offers a different skillset than Daniels and can give him some breathers. That body type is one we don't have currently either and gives you options. Think: STUD // Irving // Daniels // Perry Matthews // Martinez King // Brice (or Jones) // HHCD // Randall // House on the field in nickel or replace Daniels w/ a DB for dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 3 hours ago, CWood21 said: I think it was Michael Strahan who said that to be an effective pass rusher you needed to have two effective pass rush moves: ability to threaten the edge and a counter-move. And that's something I very much believe in. If you don't have the ability to threaten off the edge, the OL is just going to anchor and it's going to be significantly more difficult to get past the OL and into the chest of the QB. NFL OL are significantly stronger than their CFB counterpart, and while Davenport is more likely than not the best athlete on the field, I think his bull rush move is going to be less successful in the NFL if he doesn't adapt. And that's where I wanted to see him threaten off the edge more. It seems that most of his pass rush comes from running through the chest of the OL. Compare him to say Harold Landry, and you're looking at two very different prospects. In fact, I'd argue they're near polar opposites. I'd argue that Landry goes around almost too much, while Davenport goes through too much. Personally, I like Davenport's style more, but Landry is a very good prospect. You are spot on about them being totally different. Both of them at the Senior Bowl will be fun. Can Davenport bend? Does Landry have the pop to bull rush some of these guys? I really like both prospects a lot at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 5 hours ago, incognito_man said: If he gets one it's too many. I just don't think you can have enough pass rushers in your front 7 at ANY position. Daniels didn't excel this year, get him in a rotation. I think we badly need another interior rush guy in 2018. Someone who makes Lowry a game-day inactive or a 5 rep guy on rushing downs. Someone who offers a different skillset than Daniels and can give him some breathers. That body type is one we don't have currently either and gives you options. Think: STUD // Irving // Daniels // Perry Matthews // Martinez King // Brice (or Jones) // HHCD // Randall // House on the field in nickel or replace Daniels w/ a DB for dime. I think you get run over playing Daniels and Irving together on your standard looks. Clark is going to be carrying heavy snaps for this group. I'm not saying that Clark is a better pass rusher than Daniels, however I do feel it's worth mentioning that Clark is not carrying snaps in the pressure group this year and the snaps/sack ratio is in his favor. FWIW: Clark 2017: 1 sack/144 snaps Daniels 2017: 1 sack/150 snaps Daniels 2016: 1sack/160 snaps. That's a really good look for Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I think you get run over playing Daniels and Irving together on your standard looks. Clark is going to be carrying heavy snaps for this group. I'm not saying that Clark is a better pass rusher than Daniels, however I do feel it's worth mentioning that Clark is not carrying snaps in the pressure group this year and the snaps/sack ratio is in his favor. FWIW: Clark 2017: 1 sack/144 snaps Daniels 2017: 1 sack/150 snaps Daniels 2016: 1sack/160 snaps. That's a really good look for Clark. Clark really came on the last few weeks in getting home to the QB. Really hope that is a sign of things to come. I am in favor of looking for another DL to be a situational pass rusher. Clark and Daniels are not going to be able to handle significant snaps and expect them to produce. Does anyone have snap %s for those players? @AlexGreen#20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 hour ago, squire12 said: Clark really came on the last few weeks in getting home to the QB. Really hope that is a sign of things to come. I am in favor of looking for another DL to be a situational pass rusher. Clark and Daniels are not going to be able to handle significant snaps and expect them to produce. Does anyone have snap %s for those players? @AlexGreen#20 Why do you think Irving gets run over?...6’7” and 290#. Virtually the same size as Cam Hayward from Pittsburgh and he’s alright vs the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: 1 hour ago, squire12 said: Clark really came on the last few weeks in getting home to the QB. Really hope that is a sign of things to come. I am in favor of looking for another DL to be a situational pass rusher. Clark and Daniels are not going to be able to handle significant snaps and expect them to produce. Does anyone have snap %s for those players? @AlexGreen#20 Why do you think Irving gets run over?...6’7” and 290#. Virtually the same size as Cam Hayward from Pittsburgh and he’s alright vs the run. HUH???? I made no mention of Irving getting run over. Guessing you quoted the wrong person @MantyWrestler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, squire12 said: HUH???? I made no mention of Irving getting run over. Guessing you quoted the wrong person @MantyWrestler Oops. I meant to quote AG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 19 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: Oops. I meant to quote AG. All good. I did have to read my post like 3 times to make sure I did not say that or imply that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, MantyWrestler said: Why do you think Irving gets run over?...6’7” and 290#. Virtually the same size as Cam Hayward from Pittsburgh and he’s alright vs the run. Hayward is the UT, Tuitt at 6'7 315 is the BIG (With Hargrave and Alualu both swing guys). Also Hayward is a monster and Irving isn't that guy against the run. You need to be able to sit somebody down in an A gap if you're running a 2-man front. Neither Daniels, Irving, or even Hayward are that guy for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, squire12 said: Clark really came on the last few weeks in getting home to the QB. Really hope that is a sign of things to come. I am in favor of looking for another DL to be a situational pass rusher. Clark and Daniels are not going to be able to handle significant snaps and expect them to produce. Does anyone have snap %s for those players? @AlexGreen#20 Football Outsiders has total and by week stats. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts I believe PFF still does run/ pass stats if you're willing to pay the infiniti dollars for a subscription. If you're curious about any specifically I'll grab them. After the game next week, I'll post the 2017 season snapcount data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 On 12/27/2017 at 7:06 PM, incognito_man said: David Irving One of the best pass-rushers on the market and we desperately need help here. Irving is easily worth a 2nd round pick The thought of an NFL team trading a 2nd round pick for Irving is certainly not out of the question as it is being discussed in Dallas right now, which is why I suspect you raised the possibility, and he can get consistent penetration while playing inside something all teams desire. But does anyone seriously, think Ted Thompson, a GM who has not made a trade for or of a player of note in over a decade, is going to ever ship a 2nd round draft pick for any player let alone a risky one like Irving given his off the field concerns and now concussion issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I think you get run over playing Daniels and Irving together on your standard looks. Clark is going to be carrying heavy snaps for this group. I'm not saying that Clark is a better pass rusher than Daniels, however I do feel it's worth mentioning that Clark is not carrying snaps in the pressure group this year and the snaps/sack ratio is in his favor. FWIW: Clark 2017: 1 sack/144 snaps Daniels 2017: 1 sack/150 snaps Daniels 2016: 1sack/160 snaps. That's a really good look for Clark. Yeah, I know our nickel isore of our 'base' defense so that could be an issue as I typed it. Think more pressure package than nickel/base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: Yeah, I know our nickel isore of our 'base' defense so that could be an issue as I typed it. Think more pressure package than nickel/base. Key-Irving-Daniels-Perry Matthews-Martinez is definitely something to get excited about. It's a damn shame Datone Jones decided he didn't give a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 22 hours ago, MantyWrestler said: Why? He’s 6’7” - 290# that’s says DE all day. It would be nice to get something out of our DL not just the OLB. Why keep trying to put these big DL at OLB? Peppers should have been playing 3T or 5T. Id give up a conditional 2nd hinging on him not getting suspended again. Then it drops to a 4th tops. Doubt Dallas would do the trade for even a 2nd. Put yourself in their shoes... would you take a 2nd for him? I wouldn’t. DL that can really get after the QB are rare. Nice work on the mock but I’m not as high on Davenport as others. Seems like a real project and I don’t want projects in the 1st unless they’re freak athletes which he’s not. While I like the idea of a WR in the second I think you can do better than Calloway as well. Keep them coming. Irving has great size, but he's a pass rusher first and foremost. He's a lean 290 with long legs .. long arms. He's more of a pass rushing specialist than a run stuffer. I think he'd play a similar position to what Peppers played his last year or two. The more I am thinking about the idea of adding the guy for a 2nd round pick I would probably gamble and do it. It's hard to add pass rushing talent and this kid has a ton of potential if he can keep his head on straight. He's young .. probably a bit immature. I'd take a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 20 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Hayward is the UT, Tuitt at 6'7 315 is the BIG (With Hargrave and Alualu both swing guys). Also Hayward is a monster and Irving isn't that guy against the run. You need to be able to sit somebody down in an A gap if you're running a 2-man front. Neither Daniels, Irving, or even Hayward are that guy for the long term. Doesn’t that assume we are still running the current version of a 3-4 with the current DC? What if the scheme changes with a new DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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