Giants to pick #2 in 2018 NFL Draft

[Acgott]

2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

If Webb is not the guy and the staff don’t think he is good enough then yeah it’s pretty obvious what needs to be done. I don’t know what they will do to get their QB if Webb isn’t the answer. I want Chubb at #2. Then address the 2nd and 3rd rounds with o-line as it’s a you can find some good players in there. Not against using it on the OL because this Nelson kid is a dominant run blocker.

We must use a top 3 pick on a QB if they don’t think one is worth it at #2.

45 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Barkley is the first guy to remind me of Wilson as a prospect, actually. Barkley had the most ridiculous run in college since David Wilson's handless cartwheel run. Thing is, Barkley is miles better at pass protection and catching than Wilson was as a prospect. 

My head exploded once from a RB and that was with the #32 pick. I can’t surivve him with pick #2

[w4rrior723]

2 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Barkley is the first guy to remind me of Wilson as a prospect, actually. Barkley had the most ridiculous run in college since David Wilson's handless cartwheel run. Thing is, Barkley is miles better at pass protection and catching than Wilson was as a prospect. 

Barkley also has much better instincts as a runner. I understand what you're saying, given that they have similar physical abilities. But Barkley is better in literally every way. 

[Shockwave]

Maybe it's gamesmanship, lip service or not trying to tip his hand ...but Gettleman  seems to be seriously dedicated to sticking with Eli. I'm starting to doubt this pick is going to be QB. I believe he's going OL in the 1st. I hope if that's the plan it includes a trade down for a nice package of picks. I don't agree with it because IMO Eli is about done and is totally inaccurate and ineffective at this point, but can't go wrong with building up the Oline

[Kip Smithers]

19 minutes ago, w4rrior723 said:

Barkley also has much better instincts as a runner. I understand what you're saying, given that they have similar physical abilities. But Barkley is better in literally every way. 

I’m with @Acgott, I’m not using that second pick on a RB. No way. OL or Chubb. That should be our options or trade down.

[bzane]

2 hours ago, Acgott said:

My head exploded once from a RB and that was with the #32 pick. I can’t surivve him with pick #2

I have always felt that the Jerry Reese Giants jumped the shark with the David Wilson pick (yes, yes, I know he was injured). Considering there were good offensive linemen- Cordy Glenn, Mitchell Schwartz, Kelechi Osemele- who went right after that, in the second round; and the O-line has been a big problem ever since........ there were other good players drafted after David Wilson, too; it kind of soured me on first-round running backs ever since. I'd rather they build a strong O-line, and find a Kareem Hunt or Alvin Kamara or Dalvin Cook, is that the Vikings guy?, after the first.

[minutemancl]

4 hours ago, Shockey1979 said:

Maybe it's gamesmanship, lip service or not trying to tip his hand ...but Gettleman  seems to be seriously dedicated to sticking with Eli. I'm starting to doubt this pick is going to be QB. I believe he's going OL in the 1st. I hope if that's the plan it includes a trade down for a nice package of picks. I don't agree with it because IMO Eli is about done and is totally inaccurate and ineffective at this point, but can't go wrong with building up the Oline

I thought this as well. I build a mock draft that I might post soon that has us moving back to 4 in a move with the Browns that nets us an extra 2nd, pick overall #33. At 4 we pick Nelson and Cleveland moved up to guarantee Barkley. I think it is a legitimate possibility, if unlikely.

[GmenSeattle]

4 hours ago, Shockey1979 said:

Maybe it's gamesmanship, lip service or not trying to tip his hand ...but Gettleman  seems to be seriously dedicated to sticking with Eli. I'm starting to doubt this pick is going to be QB. I believe he's going OL in the 1st. I hope if that's the plan it includes a trade down for a nice package of picks. I don't agree with it because IMO Eli is about done and is totally inaccurate and ineffective at this point, but can't go wrong with building up the Oline

We'd get a kings ransom if we traded down even a couple slots.  If we don't draft a QB at 2 that's where my hopes lie.  Get the same guy we would've picked at 2 (non-QB) and pile up picks.

[w4rrior723]

45 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

I thought this as well. I build a mock draft that I might post soon that has us moving back to 4 in a move with the Browns that nets us an extra 2nd, pick overall #33. At 4 we pick Nelson and Cleveland moved up to guarantee Barkley. I think it is a legitimate possibility, if unlikely.

I would be completely happy with this move. Reason is because Nelson is a blue chip prospect that should improve our o-line straight away and it nets us an extra high draft pick that should be another impact player.

However, if we stay at 2 I truly believe Barkley is the best option for that spot. @bzane you are soured on RB in the 1st because of Wilson, but does that mean you are soured on OL in the 1st due to Flowers as well? There are busts and beasts at every position. You take the player that you believe will have the strongest impact on your team, especially if you're picking top 5.  Whether it's a Pass Rusher, QB, OL, DL, RB, LB, or whatever... You take the most impactful player. It's not healthy to eliminate certain positions from your board. Great players impact games, no matter what position they play. Look at the impact Zeke has had on the Cowboys. Dak is a 3rd round QB that has looked like an All-Pro with Zeke and a below average QB without Zeke even with a "great" line. When he was out their whole offense suffered greatly - not just their running game. Yes, guys like Kamara, Hunt, Bell, D. Johnson have been found later in the draft. But that's the case with EVERY position. Dak, Wilson, Cousins, Brady, at QB. I can go through every position and find highly drafted busts and diamonds in the rough.

I keep saying it, but Barkley is a generational talent. He's off the charts in every single category. Build, athleticism, character, instincts, durability. He's an A+ across the board. You draft him at 2 and he immediately makes our whole offense a lot better. You don't just pass on that kind of talent because you have a 1st round RB phobia.

[Kip Smithers]

Zeke has an all world o-line. We are far from that. Cowboys drafted Zeke because they saw the success they had with Murray and thought getting Zeke would get back to that level. The cowboys did a great job in improving the first. The thing with Flowers is that most thought he was overdrafted. Everybody knew that he had huge flaws the FO were wrong in thinking that those flaws can be rectified. You do eliminate certain positions because a RB is so dependent on the o-line. If we get Nelson I’d be content because he makes our line a whole lot better

[bzane]

32 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Zeke has an all world o-line. We are far from that. Cowboys drafted Zeke because they saw the success they had with Murray and thought getting Zeke would get back to that level. The cowboys did a great job in improving the first. The thing with Flowers is that most thought he was overdrafted. Everybody knew that he had huge flaws the FO were wrong in thinking that those flaws can be rectified. You do eliminate certain positions because a RB is so dependent on the o-line. If we get Nelson I’d be content because he makes our line a whole lot better

@w4rrior723- you make some good points. But I still would rather the Giants build a strong O-line, with multiple picks, than to draft a RB- even a potential great one, like Barkley- at #2, and require him to run behind mediocre blocking. For too many years now, I've seen the Giants O-line push feebly against opponents' defensive lines, and give their running backs no room to start with. If they want to win, they must build that O-line- as Gettleman professes to realize. Were there already Tyron Smith, Zack Martin, and Travis Frederick in place on the Giants, as the Cowboys had when they drafted Ezekiel Elliot, I'd probably go for it. But they don't have that. Far from it.

By the way, I do not think there is a tackle worthy of a Top-5 pick this year; it's an exceptionally weak year for OT's. Nelson, perhaps a generational guard, would be worth it, Top-5. As I've stated before I wish the Giants would trade down for one of those King's Ransom offers that get made every year by QB-needy teams, and then draft Nelson and, later, Jackson or Mayfield. 

By the way, it's not just David Wilson; I also have memories of Ron Dayne and Tyrone Wheatley. And I see post-first-round running backs succeed, given good blocking- Kareem Hunt. Alvin Kamara. Le'Veon Bell. Dalvin Cook. Closer to home, Ahmad Bradshaw. 

Barkley can be a great player, but even he will need blocking. I would like to see the Giants build their O-line rather than using the #2 pick in the draft on a runner who will struggle behind a poor offensive line.   

[bzane]

By the way, here's a pretty good article claiming that the Giants recognize their glaring need for improvement on the O-line:

https://nypost.com/2018/01/28/gettleman-shurmur-focusing-on-fixing-giants-big-weakness/

As John Mara was going through the search to find a new head coach for the Giants, something Pat Shurmur said in the initial interview nearly stopped the team’s co-owner in his tracks. Shurmur did not get the job right then and there, but it moved him closer.

“When he said, ‘You have to be able to block them,’ that is something that hit home with me,’’ Mara said. “Obviously, we’ve had our issues there.’’

The crime in this for the Giants is not that this failing became obvious as this season was wasting away. It was obvious at this time last year, and yet the inertia in the building was palpable — a bizarre calmness to what was widely recognized as a crisis situation along the offensive line, a crisis situation to everyone, other than former general manager Jerry Reese.

A year later, here we are — a head coach fired, a new head coach hired and, finally, some rational thought when it comes to protecting Eli Manning and paving the way in the running game. It is no wonder Dave Gettleman, the day he was introduced as the new general manager, took plain-speak to a new level when he said, almost matter-of-factly: “We’ve got to fix the O-line, let’s be honest. Let’s not kid each other.’’

Now then, fixing this broken mess of an offensive line is not going to be accomplished with a quote from Gettleman or a wave of the hand by Shurmur. But it can be done, as long as the Giants get creative, get smart, get ready to spend some money and get going identifying the best prospects in the draft.

[minutemancl]

1 hour ago, bzane said:

@w4rrior723- you make some good points. But I still would rather the Giants build a strong O-line, with multiple picks, than to draft a RB- even a potential great one, like Barkley- at #2, and require him to run behind mediocre blocking.

Why not both? I think in this draft we could draft Barkley at 2 and rebuild the core of the line with other picks. You cant rebuild an entire OL in one offseason, but you can get better at about 3 positions which will make it a lot better. I say let Richburg and Pugh walk, tender Brett Jones, sign Andrew Norwell, draft Hernandez and O'Neil. Your line looks like this: O'Neil-Norwell-Jones-Hernandez-Flowers. You've upgraded every position but center. Much better than last year. Then you've got Bisnowaty and Wheeler as young guys who are fighting for spots and John Jerry as a backup, where he should be. 

[bzane]

20 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Why not both? I think in this draft we could draft Barkley at 2 and rebuild the core of the line with other picks. You cant rebuild an entire OL in one offseason, but you can get better at about 3 positions which will make it a lot better. I say let Richburg and Pugh walk, tender Brett Jones, sign Andrew Norwell, draft Hernandez and O'Neil. Your line looks like this: O'Neil-Norwell-Jones-Hernandez-Flowers. You've upgraded every position but center. Much better than last year. Then you've got Bisnowaty and Wheeler as young guys who are fighting for spots and John Jerry as a backup, where he should be. 

That all sounds good. One question: what do you think of D.J. Fluker? I thought he really improved their run blocking last year, and I would like to see him back at right guard.

[minutemancl]

1 hour ago, bzane said:

That all sounds good. One question: what do you think of D.J. Fluker? I thought he really improved their run blocking last year, and I would like to see him back at right guard.

I like Fluker. Norwell and Hernandez are way better than he is, though. He'll want to start and he wouldn't be starting here in this scenario. 

[w4rrior723]

5 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Zeke has an all world o-line. We are far from that. Cowboys drafted Zeke because they saw the success they had with Murray and thought getting Zeke would get back to that level. The cowboys did a great job in improving the first. The thing with Flowers is that most thought he was overdrafted. Everybody knew that he had huge flaws the FO were wrong in thinking that those flaws can be rectified. You do eliminate certain positions because a RB is so dependent on the o-line. If we get Nelson I’d be content because he makes our line a whole lot better

I would also be content with Nelson. But moreso if we traded down a couple spots at least. If you're picking at 2, you should really be getting the most impactful player possible. Barkley would impact the team in far more ways than Nelson. The fact that Dallas has studs on the o-line AND a serviceable backup RB in Morris yet their offense still struggled without Zeke goes to show how valuable he is. Just look at Daks numbers with and without Zeke. It's pretty staggering. 

Also, Orleans Darkwa managed to run for 750 on 4.4 ypc behind our "atrocious" line. Orleans FRIGGIN Darkwa. If he was getting carries all year he would've had a very solid year, and it likely would've opened up for our passing game, as well. If he could do that, imagine what a talent like Barkley could do in a similar situation.

FYI You're all making solid points. I don't know all the answers, and enjoy reading everyone's perspective. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing... and that's to get the Giants back to their winning ways.