Giants to pick #2 in 2018 NFL Draft

[Acgott]

54 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

At some point you gotta bank on somebody. It doesn’t matter what round he is picked, that’s why people fall into that trap. All that matters is if you think he is good enough? Round 1, round 7, round 12. Don’t matter. 

Well there was talk of him being a first rounder last year, and I imagine Minny could’ve been one of those teams. 

Like I said this league is built for the a quick turnaround and not having to be tied to a QB for years. If we don’t draft one this year then so be it. It’s not doom and gloom. Trust this new staff to try and develop him. And if he doesn’t work out, then yeah explore other options. 

I’m shocked you are willing to bet our future on Webb. I don’t understand how someone can put their trust in a mid range pick we have never seen play.

We have a golden opportunity to pick one of the best QB in this years draft.

If the Giants dont go QB its because of the prospects not Webb. 

The only other solution would be front 7

[w4rrior723]

Look at it this way: Our offense needs more work than our defense, and the 3 biggest needs on that side of the ball are OT, RB, and QB. This draft does not have a blue-chip Tackle prospect or an obvious QB. It DOES have an elite RB prospect, though. I just can't see how we pass him up if we stay at #2.

To those of you who think RB is a "luxury pick," look at the type of impact Fournette had in Jacksonville. Keep in mind that's also with a middling inconsistent QB at the helm. Barkley is an even better prospect and there's no reason he couldn't have a similar impact on our offense.

This is a team that is probably at least 2 years away from being a winning team. That means we can grab more impact players in the next draft. But you gotta take the best players available. 

[doumeyer]

3 hours ago, w4rrior723 said:

Look at it this way: Our offense needs more work than our defense, and the 3 biggest needs on that side of the ball are OT, RB, and QB. This draft does not have a blue-chip Tackle prospect or an obvious QB. It DOES have an elite RB prospect, though. I just can't see how we pass him up if we stay at #2.

To those of you who think RB is a "luxury pick," look at the type of impact Fournette had in Jacksonville. Keep in mind that's also with a middling inconsistent QB at the helm. Barkley is an even better prospect and there's no reason he couldn't have a similar impact on our offense.

This is a team that is probably at least 2 years away from being a winning team. That means we can grab more impact players in the next draft. But you gotta take the best players available. 

As a Jet fan we are going thru the same thing as you when it comes to the so called " luxury picks ". Some people on our board think getting a RB with a first round pick is wrong, They want to wait to get a RB or top WR in the later rounds. You are 100% correct,  look what Fornettee, has done for the Jags, and what Todd Gurley as done for the L A Rams. The Jets needs are the same as the Giants QB, RB, & OT. The only difference is I am sure the Giants will pick the right player in the draft, the Jets I am not so sure about. We will probably draft another safety.  

[Kip Smithers]

9 hours ago, Acgott said:

I’m shocked you are willing to bet our future on Webb. I don’t understand how someone can put their trust in a mid range pick we have never seen play.

We have a golden opportunity to pick one of the best QB in this years draft.

If the Giants dont go QB its because of the prospects not Webb. 

The only other solution would be front 7

It’s not really betting our future on Webb. We’ve never seen Darnold or Rosen play and Webb is a year ahead in development. Whatever way we slice it we are putting faith in somebody we haven’t seen play.it don’t matter that we was a mid round pick. The only thing what matter is their projection of him. If the Giants viewed him as a first round talent and took him in the third then what does that say? If we give Webb a shot and he bums out then so be it. It’s not the end of world. It doesn’t halt our future. We aren’t obliged to take a QB just because of where we pick. We have this supposed coach who has done well with QBs and we a QB with good deal of talent, I’d rather give that a shot than draft another QB who is gonna sit for probably the whole season. If they were can’t miss prospects I’d be singing a different tune but these are flawed QBs who are being propped simply because of their position

[Gmen]

Josh Allen has gained some steam lately.  Rumors that the Browns like him.  Comparisons to Wentz.   People are going to try to find faults with all of these QB prospects because they'll be under the microscope for the next 3 months.  Deshaun Watson got picked apart in the draft process, and looked like an MVP candidate before his injury.   We don't need to over complicate or overthink this.  There are 4 QBs that will likely go top 10.  With a 37 year old QB, we need to get one of those 4 guys, and build around him. 

[minutemancl]

15 hours ago, Acgott said:

If they don't think one of those QBs can be the QBOTF, then they should draft the best front 7 player available. No more RB, WR, TE, OL, TE, Secondary, K, P, waterboy, cheerleader. Its a simple strategy to get us back to where we should be.

 

Here's the thing @Acgott: most of the value at OL this draft is gonna be concentrated around picks 30-90. There really are only a few, depending on who you talk to, even less, blue chip OL prospects.

I'm only in the early stages of looking at prospects myself, but based on what I've seen and what people who I respect a lot are saying, Nelson and McGlinchey from ND are the 2 best OL prospects without question. Nelson is superior, but he plays guard. Still, he's a David Decastro like prospect who think will be an even better pro than Decastro. McGlinchey is the most natural LT you're gonna find. After that, there are a lot of guys in the mix. People hype up Connor Williams from Texas, but I think he is just a good prospect, nothing more. Kolton Miller from UCLA I'm also rather lukewarm on. I'm really partial to G Will Hernandez from UTEP, T Alex Cappa from Humboldt State, and G Isaiah Wynn from Georgia. Those 3 guys, besides being great players, fit the mold exactly for what Gettleman wants in his OL. They are "hog mollies". More importantly, they can be had with our 2nd or 3rd round picks. The former 2 showed up huge at the senior bowl. I know 2/3 are guards, but this entire OL needs a rebuild. You take talent where you can get it. Besides those 3, another guy I like a lot is that T from Pitt whose name escapes me right now. He showed up well at the Senior Bowl as well, allowed 1 sack all year, and could be had with our 2nd round pick.

Bottom line is the value is there on the 2nd day at OL to take the best player available regardless of position at 2 overall. If it isn't Rosen or Darnold (or Baker), then it should be Barkley. Besides being the best pure runner in the draft, he pass blocks extremely well and can catch. He's Zeke as a prospect but more explosive and a better pure runner. Right now, I don't see the value of anyone else besides a QB or Barkley being worth the pick at 2. I'd be open to hearing an argument for Nelson or maybe Chubb (the one from NC State, who might fit well in Bettcher's defense), but thats it. 

I'm sure it has been brought up before, but Gettleman has been very successful at drafting mid-late round OL. Giants are normally secretive about draft plans, but both Shurmur and Gettleman have publicly and outright said they plan to address the OL heavily. Take that for what it is worth. 

[minutemancl]

1 hour ago, Gmen said:

Josh Allen has gained some steam lately.  Rumors that the Browns like him.  Comparisons to Wentz.   People are going to try to find faults with all of these QB prospects because they'll be under the microscope for the next 3 months.  Deshaun Watson got picked apart in the draft process, and looked like an MVP candidate before his injury.   We don't need to over complicate or overthink this.  There are 4 QBs that will likely go top 10.  With a 37 year old QB, we need to get one of those 4 guys, and build around him. 

Josh Allen is going to bust hard. The people clamoring over him are thinking too much. You can't teach accuracy and Allen just doesn't have it. The same reason I don't like Allen is the reason I love Mayfield. He's as accurate as I've seen in college, he's competitive, and he's a natural leader. I'm not concerned about his off the field stuff. 

[bzane]

26 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Josh Allen is going to bust hard. The people clamoring over him are thinking too much. You can't teach accuracy and Allen just doesn't have it. The same reason I don't like Allen is the reason I love Mayfield. He's as accurate as I've seen in college, he's competitive, and he's a natural leader. I'm not concerned about his off the field stuff. 

True that. I had read somewhere that a huge red flag for college QB's as prospects was if they had a below 60% completion rate. Somebody influential, Bill Parcells or somebody, said never to expect a guy with a lower completion rate in college to make it big in the pros. Josh Allen's was 56% or so? For that reason alone I wouldn't draft him. Now, Mayfield..............

https://www.thephinsider.com/2007/4/16/0619/91876

Here, we have ranked most of the QBs taken in round 1 since 1998 by their career completion percentage. These are the QBs whose % is under 60%:

Player	College	Draft	Starts	Comp.%
Kyle Boller	Cal	2003	31	48%
Ryan Leaf	Wash. St.	1998	24	53%
Cade McNown	UCLA	1999	42	55%
Joey Harrington	Oregon	2002	26	55%
Mike Vick	VT	2001	21	56%
JP Losman	Tulane	2004	29	57%
Jay Cutler	Vanderbilt	2006	43	57%
Akili Smith	Oregon	1999	11	58%
Carson Palmer	USC	2003	45	59%

[Cruz Cruz]

I just can't envision the Giants not taking a QB at no.2. Tom Brady was 36 YEARS OLD, and still playing at a MVP level with the Pats competing for SBs and the Patriots still used a 2nd round pick on a QB to protect the future.

 

[Acgott]

6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

It’s not really betting our future on Webb. We’ve never seen Darnold or Rosen play and Webb is a year ahead in development. Whatever way we slice it we are putting faith in somebody we haven’t seen play.it don’t matter that we was a mid round pick. The only thing what matter is their projection of him. If the Giants viewed him as a first round talent and took him in the third then what does that say? If we give Webb a shot and he bums out then so be it. It’s not the end of world. It doesn’t halt our future. We aren’t obliged to take a QB just because of where we pick. We have this supposed coach who has done well with QBs and we a QB with good deal of talent, I’d rather give that a shot than draft another QB who is gonna sit for probably the whole season. If they were can’t miss prospects I’d be singing a different tune but these are flawed QBs who are being propped simply because of their position

 I don’t study the prospects at all, and I won’t get into a battle defending them, so I can’t speak on that. Do you have a plan B if Webb is not the chosen one? How do you see the Giants getting their QBOTF? What position/player are you looking at #2?

[Acgott]

1 hour ago, bzane said:

True that. I had read somewhere that a huge red flag for college QB's as prospects was if they had a below 60% completion rate. Somebody influential, Bill Parcells or somebody, said never to expect a guy with a lower completion rate in college to make it big in the pros. Josh Allen's was 56% or so? For that reason alone I wouldn't draft him. Now, Mayfield..............

https://www.thephinsider.com/2007/4/16/0619/91876

Here, we have ranked most of the QBs taken in round 1 since 1998 by their career completion percentage. These are the QBs whose % is under 60%:

Player	College	Draft	Starts	Comp.%
Kyle Boller	Cal	2003	31	48%
Ryan Leaf	Wash. St.	1998	24	53%
Cade McNown	UCLA	1999	42	55%
Joey Harrington	Oregon	2002	26	55%
Mike Vick	VT	2001	21	56%
JP Losman	Tulane	2004	29	57%
Jay Cutler	Vanderbilt	2006	43	57%
Akili Smith	Oregon	1999	11	58%
Carson Palmer	USC	2003	45	59%

That article is over 10 years old, but has some good points nonetheless. Quick research found 2 players who bucked the trend

Stafford had 57% in college, and his completion percentage  has improved tremendously in NFL. Was 66% this year. Ditto for Matt Ryan who was under 60%.

[Acgott]

1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

Here's the thing @Acgott: most of the value at OL this draft is gonna be concentrated around picks 30-90. There really are only a few, depending on who you talk to, even less, blue chip OL prospects.

I'm only in the early stages of looking at prospects myself, but based on what I've seen and what people who I respect a lot are saying, Nelson and McGlinchey from ND are the 2 best OL prospects without question. Nelson is superior, but he plays guard. Still, he's a David Decastro like prospect who think will be an even better pro than Decastro. McGlinchey is the most natural LT you're gonna find. After that, there are a lot of guys in the mix. People hype up Connor Williams from Texas, but I think he is just a good prospect, nothing more. Kolton Miller from UCLA I'm also rather lukewarm on. I'm really partial to G Will Hernandez from UTEP, T Alex Cappa from Humboldt State, and G Isaiah Wynn from Georgia. Those 3 guys, besides being great players, fit the mold exactly for what Gettleman wants in his OL. They are "hog mollies". More importantly, they can be had with our 2nd or 3rd round picks. The former 2 showed up huge at the senior bowl. I know 2/3 are guards, but this entire OL needs a rebuild. You take talent where you can get it. Besides those 3, another guy I like a lot is that T from Pitt whose name escapes me right now. He showed up well at the Senior Bowl as well, allowed 1 sack all year, and could be had with our 2nd round pick.

Bottom line is the value is there on the 2nd day at OL to take the best player available regardless of position at 2 overall. If it isn't Rosen or Darnold (or Baker), then it should be Barkley. Besides being the best pure runner in the draft, he pass blocks extremely well and can catch. He's Zeke as a prospect but more explosive and a better pure runner. Right now, I don't see the value of anyone else besides a QB or Barkley being worth the pick at 2. I'd be open to hearing an argument for Nelson or maybe Chubb (the one from NC State, who might fit well in Bettcher's defense), but thats it. 

I'm sure it has been brought up before, but Gettleman has been very successful at drafting mid-late round OL. Giants are normally secretive about draft plans, but both Shurmur and Gettleman have publicly and outright said they plan to address the OL heavily. Take that for what it is worth. 

I have no problems taking OL in the mid rounds, just not with the #2 pick.

I can never support a RB at #2. QB and defenses win championships. We went through this same argument with David Wilson. I’m sure Barkley is 10xs the prospect of Wilson, but I don’t care. The value isn’t there.

 

[Kip Smithers]

2 hours ago, Acgott said:

 I don’t study the prospects at all, and I won’t get into a battle defending them, so I can’t speak on that. Do you have a plan B if Webb is not the chosen one? How do you see the Giants getting their QBOTF? What position/player are you looking at #2?

If Webb is not the guy and the staff don’t think he is good enough then yeah it’s pretty obvious what needs to be done. I don’t know what they will do to get their QB if Webb isn’t the answer. I want Chubb at #2. Then address the 2nd and 3rd rounds with o-line as it’s a you can find some good players in there. Not against using it on the OL because this Nelson kid is a dominant run blocker.

[bzane]

Sorry! I think maybe this is it- the 26-27-60 Rule for drafting college QB's. Stresses the 60% completion average, claiming that quarterbacks below that threshold generally do not succeed in the NFL. Which, if true, is a serious red flag against Jonathan Allen.

Have yet to find an article on the Ryan Leaf Rule, which holds that someone who's an arrogant ****** in college will probably continue to be one in the pros, which may bode ill for Josh Rosen. 

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/1/28/1961801/quarterback-drafting-rules-26-27-60

 

Over the past few days, a couple of FanPosts and FanShots have brought up some different criterion that various football gurus have used when selecting a quarterback during the draft. I was going to try to combine them all into one FanPost, but after further review, I think they need to be looked at separately, so that's what we'll go with. Yesterday, NMVike brought us the "26-27-60" rule, which says that a quarterback should score at least a 26 on the Wonderlic Test that's given at the Combine, start 27 games in college, and complete 60% of his passes

[minutemancl]

2 hours ago, Acgott said:

I have no problems taking OL in the mid rounds, just not with the #2 pick.

I can never support a RB at #2. QB and defenses win championships. We went through this same argument with David Wilson. I’m sure Barkley is 10xs the prospect of Wilson, but I don’t care. The value isn’t there.

 

Barkley is the first guy to remind me of Wilson as a prospect, actually. Barkley had the most ridiculous run in college since David Wilson's handless cartwheel run. Thing is, Barkley is miles better at pass protection and catching than Wilson was as a prospect.