JetsFan15 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Getting 5 wins this year was good given the roster. But I think we need to win atleast 8 next year for these guys jobs to be safe. With 4 valuable picks and 100mill in cap space. They should be able to get 3 more wins with those assets. If they end up with a rookie QB next year is a pass. If you don't think so, then you really have not watched much football over the past 20+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 minute ago, JetsFan15 said: If they end up with a rookie QB next year is a pass. If you don't think so, then you really have not watched much football over the past 20+ years. Not true at all bc if we don’t spend big on Cousins than we have to spend that money elsewhere to hit the cap floor. So the roster will HAVE to be better no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Just now, JetsFan15 said: If they end up with a rookie QB next year is a pass. If you don't think so, then you really have not watched much football over the past 20+ years. That's not true though. If the rookie doesn't play well at all, you have to question Mac who historically has not been good at drafting. If the team plays moderately well and you can't get more than 5 wins, you have to question Bowles' coaching ability and Mac's FA signings. The fact is, we went 8-8 with Geno his rookie year and that team lacked talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Not true at all bc if we don’t spend big on Cousins than we have to spend that money elsewhere to hit the cap floor. So the roster will HAVE to be better no matter what. Do you remember how Dallas did in Troy Aikman's rookie year? If we have a rookie QB the judgement will be not on our total W/L record but on improvement through out the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyt31 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: This type of thinking is why most franchises are stuck in a cycle of mediocrity or long droughts. If you think you have the right GM and HC then you stick with them as you go through a rebuild and find the right players from a talent and scheme perceptive. IMO a franchise like the Steelers have it right. Put your faith in the character of the folks you hire and move forward. Each time you fire a HC and/or GM it is like being an expansion franchise starting fresh. I think Mac is the right guy. You ride him out and trust in his process and talent folks. Bowles is winning me over - guys want to play hard for him and from what I have heard he is a leader. So I think they will get the full two years to be on the upward trend at the very least. The obvious need is a franchise QB - it has been the need since I watched my first Jets game and Richard Todd was the QB. We need to find that guy. There are at least 5 guys that MIGHT fit that bill this year in the draft but there are no guarantees. Bottom line - Mac needs to continue to build the talent on this roster as he did last off season. Bowles need to continue to motivate the team and get the best out of them while improving time management skills. This is what it all comes down to. I've admitted to my reasons why both should stay, but at the same time they both have screwed up. We're possibly going into next season with More Idzik players on the roster than Macc's 2015 draft class. We traded up for Bryce and took Hack in the 2nd round, and none of them worked out so far. If you can't improve the roster in year #4 compared to the team you took over, you're in trouble. Him and Bowles have to show progress. Now he could have 80M+ and 4 great draft picks, if they can't get the job done next season, that 1 little year on their contract is not going to protect them. Bowles did a great job with this roster in my opinion, but it doesn't promise anything going to next year. They need a winning season. If we end with another 5 win season, I don't know too many coaches that would get a 5th year after going 10-6, 5-11.5-11, and 5-11. Shouldn't have to make the playoffs for his job if he pulls off 8-9 wins next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: That's not true though. If the rookie doesn't play well at all, you have to question Mac who historically has not been good at drafting. If the team plays moderately well and you can't get more than 5 wins, you have to question Bowles' coaching ability and Mac's FA signings. The fact is, we went 8-8 with Geno his rookie year and that team lacked talent. Again have you seen many rookie or first year starters stats and teams records? Aikman, both Mannings, Jim Kelly, Brees, Rodgers .. etc ... it is not always about wins and losses when you throw in your QB of future .. it is about progress in that first season. Then you have to continue that progress and make some leaps. That is when the HC will be on the hot seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, rickyt31 said: This is what it all comes down to. I've admitted to my reasons why both should stay, but at the same time they both have screwed up. We're possibly going into next season with More Idzik players on the roster than Macc's 2015 draft class. We traded up for Bryce and took Hack in the 2nd round, and none of them worked out so far. If you can't improve the roster in year #4 compared to the team you took over, you're in trouble. Him and Bowles have to show progress. Now he could have 80M+ and 4 great draft picks, if they can't get the job done next season, that 1 little year on their contract is not going to protect them. Bowles did a great job with this roster in my opinion, but it doesn't promise anything going to next year. They need a winning season. If we end with another 5 win season, I don't know too many coaches that would get a 5th year after going 10-6, 5-11.5-11, and 5-11. Shouldn't have to make the playoffs for his job if he pulls off 8-9 wins next season. What you are not considering is they did the roster blow up last off season. Not the first year. The first year, I am sure due to fan pressure on how Idzik handled things, they went for quick fixes instead of a full rebuild. We are now doing a full rebuild and they will be judged, as most are, on the first 3 years of that rebuild. This was year one. Results are positive. But don't be surprised if we take a step back next year with a rookie QB (if that is the case, which I would suspect it will be). And that step back will be ok as it should result in two steps forward the following year. I am thinking we will spend most of our FA money on defensive side of the ball. And most of our draft getting young players for the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: Again have you seen many rookie or first year starters stats and teams records? Aikman, both Mannings, Jim Kelly, Brees, Rodgers .. etc ... it is not always about wins and losses when you throw in your QB of future .. it is about progress in that first season. Then you have to continue that progress and make some leaps. That is when the HC will be on the hot seat. Yes but we will have assets to make a rookie QB succeed. If not Macc needs to go. That 100mill and 3 other quality picks should be then spent on OL, RB and WR. Think of Dak Prescott situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: Again have you seen many rookie or first year starters stats and teams records? Aikman, both Mannings, Jim Kelly, Brees, Rodgers .. etc ... it is not always about wins and losses when you throw in your QB of future .. it is about progress in that first season. Then you have to continue that progress and make some leaps. That is when the HC will be on the hot seat. Better than winning 5 games is a progress for Bowles. If a rookie qb started 16 games and won 3 or fewer games then Bowles would be out. No question about that. Stronger run game and defense can help Bowles win 6-8 games with a rookie qb as Jets haven't been focusing on qb progression for Jets' success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Ah.. If Cardinals went outside for new HC who may clean up the house then it would be good idea to give Harold Goodwin a real good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: Again have you seen many rookie or first year starters stats and teams records? Aikman, both Mannings, Jim Kelly, Brees, Rodgers .. etc ... it is not always about wins and losses when you throw in your QB of future .. it is about progress in that first season. Then you have to continue that progress and make some leaps. That is when the HC will be on the hot seat. You're missing the point. Aikman is the exception because Jerry Jones owned the team and made the decisions. For Peyton, Polian was in year 2 as GM. For Eli, Accorsi made the SB a few years earlier and had them in the playoffs twice within 3 years or so very close to when Eli was drafted, Jim Kelly and Rodgers are weird mentions because Kelly went to the CFL and Rodgers sat behind Favre for years, and for Brees, Brees started year 2, not year 1. The team went 8-8. Mac will be in year 4, does not have a success record, and has a ton of cap space. He needs to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Yes but we will have assets to make a rookie QB succeed. If not Macc needs to go. That 100mill and 3 other quality picks should be then spent on OL, RB and WR. Think of Dak Prescott situation. We are far away from having Dallas' OL and Elliot. I guess the difference is that I believe we were lucky to go 5-11 this year and most of it was because Bowles did a good job and Mac found some talent in the draft. So if we go 5-11 next year with a rookie QB, I view that as progress. Obviously you and Barnaby would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: We are far away from having Dallas' OL and Elliot. I guess the difference is that I believe we were lucky to go 5-11 this year and most of it was because Bowles did a good job and Mac found some talent in the draft. So if we go 5-11 next year with a rookie QB, I view that as progress. Obviously you and Barnaby would not. I think i'd have more issue with Mac being back than Bowles. You won't agree, but I don't think Mac has done a good job. Virtually all of his FA signings haven't panned out, his trades have been 100% boom or bust, and he hasn't found much talent in the draft outside of the 1st round with the exception of Maye. McGuire and Jenkins are nice role players. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 minute ago, barnaby8787 said: You're missing the point. Aikman is the exception because Jerry Jones owned the team and made the decisions. For Peyton, Polian was in year 2 as GM. For Eli, Accorsi made the SB a few years earlier and had them in the playoffs twice within 3 years or so very close to when Eli was drafted, Jim Kelly and Rodgers are weird mentions because Kelly went to the CFL and Rodgers sat behind Favre for years, and for Brees, Brees started year 2, not year 1. The team went 8-8. Mac will be in year 4, does not have a success record, and has a ton of cap space. He needs to produce. We just disagree. And I believe year one for these two was a bye year as they took a shot. That shot lead them to retarding the rebuild another year as Ftiz and O had such a great year in 15. I think Mac specifically has done good job. We have a good deal of young talent on the team. With the QB prospects in this draft I do think the needs to get one and hope it is the right one. Was not impressed with Bowles until this year. The young guys seem to love him and want to play hard for him. Similar to how Rex started. Since Bowles is more even tempered I am starting to think he can maintain that locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: We just disagree. And I believe year one for these two was a bye year as they took a shot. That shot lead them to retarding the rebuild another year as Ftiz and O had such a great year in 15. I think Mac specifically has done good job. We have a good deal of young talent on the team. With the QB prospects in this draft I do think the needs to get one and hope it is the right one. Was not impressed with Bowles until this year. The young guys seem to love him and want to play hard for him. Similar to how Rex started. Since Bowles is more even tempered I am starting to think he can maintain that locker room. Said it above, but just don't think we have a "good deal of young talent" as you stated. On offense, we have zero young talent outside of Robby (a UDFA) and Enunwa (an Idzik pick). On D, we have our two safeties, Leo, and Demario is still pretty young. Not much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.