Rams 2018 offseason

[DEE RAWL]

I understand all the financial concerns that are presented and that Lunatic pointed out, but again, for me personally, the chance to trade for (and have long term) one of the elite talents in the league is something that’s worth it.  That may result in losing another starter or two, but If that’s what it takes then so be it.

 

 

[StLunatic88]

16 minutes ago, DEE RAWL said:

I understand all the financial concerns that are presented and that Lunatic pointed out, but again, for me personally, the chance to trade for (and have long term) one of the elite talents in the league is something that’s worth it.  That may result in losing another starter or two, but If that’s what it takes then so be it.

 

 

So you'd rather pay what OBJ is asking for and potentially lose both Joyner and Peters for it?

No thanks, thats just bad business

[NVRamsFan]

13 minutes ago, DEE RAWL said:

I understand all the financial concerns that are presented and that Lunatic pointed out, but again, for me personally, the chance to trade for (and have long term) one of the elite talents in the league is something that’s worth it.  That may result in losing another starter or two, but If that’s what it takes then so be it.

 

 

For that kind of money it wouldn't just put a starter or two in jeopardy of losing you're talking about really screwing up financially the cap long term. We've all pretty much agreed AD is going to take about $20 million a year. OBJ has said he wants to be the highest paid WR in the league which is going to be at least $18 million a year. Peters is up for an extension which if we retain him is looking around $15+ a year. We've franchised Joyner if we sign him long term that's $11 a year (going off his tag this year). Gurley is up the same time as Peters so what's he going to cost us $15 million a year? Goff the year after that for what $30 million? With those players you're now looking at roughly $110 million with the cap right now being $177 million! So now we've spent roughly 62% of our cap on 6 players. Not impossible but holy cow you're going to depend on a lot of veteran minimum prove it type deals and adding 10 or more rookies each year.

[stl4life07]

5 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

So you'd rather pay what OBJ is asking for and potentially lose both Joyner and Peters for it?

No thanks

Who say we are losing Peters and Joyner? Whitworth will probably be hanging them up after his contract ends so he is off the books, same as with Sullivan moving on from him. Barron can be a cut casualty if need be. Same as Webster then Talib contract will be off the books after 2019. Not to mention Suh contract is off the books after this season if he and Rams choose to part ways when the season ends. As long as the Rams take care of their main guys Joyner, Donald, Goff, Gurley then if they want to sign Peters long term and of course draft well to replace some of the guys I just mentioned, they could fit OBJ in. Again I trust Snead/McVay knowing what they are doing or else they wouldn’t be even wasting their time calling the Giants offering them assets for OBJ.

[StLunatic88]

4 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

Who say we are losing Peters and Joyner?

Keep sticking your head in the sand, but reality is we CAN NOT keep all those guys and fill out a complete roster.

Yea Whit will go at some point (doesnt look like he is ready too) and Sullivan/Talib arent long term guys, but they arent all going to just get replaced by a bunch of 5th & 6th rounders. Without the Top 100 picks in these drafts, we have an extremely Top Heavy roster, sure that will sell some jerseys, but to think we are going to continue to be competitive with (as @NVRamsFan pointed out) paying 60%+ to the Top 10% of our roster.

Im fine going for it this year, and probably next, but only if we were to get Donald & Joyner their deals, make the move for OBJ and franchise him for 2019. We cant commit long term to all these guys, the cap (even a still growing one) just wont allow it.

[NVRamsFan]

Now in addition to what I listed above lets look at some of the other players and their current paychecks.

 

Michael Brockers $11 million

Andrew Whitworth $13 million

Roger Saffold $8 million

Robert Woods $8 million

Now we're down to $27 million for what 53 people? Is that a way smart clubs manage the cap? 53 people at the league minimum is roughly $26 million so basically you're going to build our roster off 10 studs including 4 or 5 that might be among the best at their position and 53 people making the league minimum. Sorry but the notion that we can pay all these guys is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. And I've been reading a lot lately from Eagles fans talking about how great they are.

 

[DEE RAWL]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

So you'd rather pay what OBJ is asking for and potentially lose both Joyner and Peters for it?

No thanks, thats just bad business

 

There weren’t any specific names that I was thinking of, but in the example you provided my answer would be yes.  

Give me the two 3rd round comp picks for Joyner and Peters and pay OBJ.  I just think OBJ is that dynamic and makes that much of a difference.  Again, I wasn’t thinking those two specifically.  I was thinking more along the lines of finding money through the likes of older vets like Talib, Whitworth, Sullivan, Saffold, Barron, Suh, etc.  Guys that are likely gone in the next year or two.

I’ll be the first to admit, I’m not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the salary cap/contracts, etc.  And maybe I’m completely off-base, or perhaps it’s just my stance on the matter that many may disagree with, but while I understand you can’t have every elite talent in the NFL, I want a dynamic game-changing WR like OBJ if I can make it work and it only requires 23 + 

 

 

 

 

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Keep sticking your head in the sand, but reality is we CAN NOT keep all those guys and fill out a complete roster.

Yea Whit will go at some point (doesnt look like he is ready too) and Sullivan/Talib arent long term guys, but they arent all going to just get replaced by a bunch of 5th & 6th rounders. Without the Top 100 picks in these drafts, we have an extremely Top Heavy roster, sure that will sell some jerseys, but to think we are going to continue to be competitive with (as @NVRamsFan pointed out) paying 60%+ to the Top 10% of our roster.

Im fine going for it this year, and probably next, but only if we were to get Donald & Joyner their deals, make the move for OBJ and franchise him for 2019. We cant commit long term to all these guys, the cap (even a still growing one) just wont allow it.

I see your point I’m just always under the impression if a team work the cap right they can sign nearly anyone they want. Heck the Saints have been going down cap hell for years now but yet they still have managed to get guys or at least go after big time guys in FA. Again it’s how a team work the cap. The Rams have a great cap manager so they know better than us how to manage this roster if they trade for OBJ and that’s why they are inquiring about him.

[RamPackFan]

4 hours ago, The LBC said:

No.  It's not pretty darn close.  It might be in your mind where you can selectively ignore details of posts that were made, but it's not in touch with reality.

No one said that WR wasn't a need.  A number of us said that WR depth wasn't so pressing a need as to necessitate spending a Day 1 or Day 2 pick on a position that doesn't contribute as immediately as others.  There is a substantial difference between Odell Beckham Jr. and rookie WR's, much less any rookie receiver from this class.  What you're making is a false analogy.  And the sad part is, I think you know you're making a disassociation and don't care because it allows you to thump your chest and steer attention towards yourself.  Kind of like how you accused me of not letting things go and getting my panties in a twist, when you were the one who went out of your way to tag me in a post.

If you're taking someone at #23 best believe they're making an immediate impact. Plenty of day 1 and 2 WRs who've made am immediate impact as WR on their team each and every year. 

[Dr LBC]

1 hour ago, stl4life07 said:

I see your point I’m just always under the impression if a team work the cap right they can sign nearly anyone they want. Heck the Saints have been going down cap hell for years now but yet they still have managed to get guys or at least go after big time guys in FA. Again it’s how a team work the cap. The Rams have a great cap manager so they know better than us how to manage this roster if they trade for OBJ and that’s why they are inquiring about him.

You have to appreciate where @StLunatic88 is coming from though, the Saints have never had more than one $20M/yr player on their roster (and the closest they've come was when they were rocking what might be comparable - if adjusting backward for inflation that occurred - was when they were rocking Brees, Grubbs, and Nicks on the same team (and IIRC they ended up eating $6M of Grubbs' $21M contract as dead money after they traded him to the Chiefs to free up cap-space; and $10M of Nicks' $25M extension as dead money).  Even at present, the Saints have Brees on a $24M cap number and the next highest being Cameron Jordan at $14M.  If we were to give OBJ the money he's looking for ($20M) and Donald the money he's earned/deserves ($20M/yr), we're likely to be in a position where we're having to pick two of three between LMJ, Gurley, or Peters that we're able to reasonably extend.  And more than likely, we run into the same issue that the Giants ended up in - if we don't draft lights-out on the OL over the next two years, we're going to end up sacrificing the majority of an effective and quality offensive line in the name of (a) weapons.

I just don't see the cap increasing at an annual rate high enough to give us the wiggle room we'd need.  It could, but I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in it happening - even with a new CBA set to be negotiated next year.

[Dr LBC]

32 minutes ago, RamPackFan said:

If you're taking someone at #23 best believe they're making an immediate impact. Plenty of day 1 and 2 WRs who've made am immediate impact as WR on their team each and every year. 

Just the most recent example (WR taken at #23).  The WR taken one pick before him: 2 receptions for 66 yards as a rookie.  The rookie stats of the WR's taken the year before between picks 21 and 32?  33 receptions for 499 yards and 3 TD's (Perriman) and 33 receptions for 225 yards and 1 TD (Dorsett).  You have to go back to 2014 to find a final 1/3 of the 1st round WR who broke 1000 yards as a rookie, to Kelvin Benjamin who was drafted onto a team that lost a massive amount of targets to free agency and where he walked into only having to fend off Jericho Cotchery for the WR1 duties on the team.

 

[stl4life07]

11 minutes ago, The LBC said:

You have to appreciate where @StLunatic88 is coming from though, the Saints have never had more than one $20M/yr player on their roster (and the closest they've come was when they were rocking what might be comparable - if adjusting backward for inflation that occurred - was when they were rocking Brees, Grubbs, and Nicks on the same team (and IIRC they ended up eating $6M of Grubbs' $21M contract as dead money after they traded him to the Chiefs to free up cap-space; and $10M of Nicks' $25M extension as dead money).  Even at present, the Saints have Brees on a $24M cap number and the next highest being Cameron Jordan at $14M.  If we were to give OBJ the money he's looking for ($20M) and Donald the money he's earned/deserves ($20M/yr), we're likely to be in a position where we're having to pick two of three between LMJ, Gurley, or Peters that we're able to reasonably extend.  And more than likely, we run into the same issue that the Giants ended up in - if we don't draft lights-out on the OL over the next two years, we're going to end up sacrificing the majority of an effective and quality offensive line in the name of (a) weapons.

I just don't see the cap increasing at an annual rate high enough to give us the wiggle room we'd need.  It could, but I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in it happening - even with a new CBA set to be negotiated next year.

When it comes to the financial part of things I’ll let those who know about it speak on it so I do respect what you and @StLunatic88 is saying. Only reason why I brought up the Saints is because my two best friends are not only diehard Saints fans but they are accountants so when they talk about the Saints cap situation they make it very clear the Saints are really only pushing the inevitable down the road. That is to say yes they are continuing to go after big FAs but eventually they will pay for it but really not until Brees hangs it up. They want to squeeze as much as they can to try to make run while Brees has years left. What I do know is the Saints have had some bad FA contracts like CJ Spiller, Jarius Byrd, and currently Colby Fleener. They also haven’t drafted well outside of the year they took Ingram/Jordan in the same draft class and last year when they loaded up on talent. The Rams have done pretty good under Snead in terms of drafting players and getting more than solid FA signings. So again I’ll say that if Snead and McVay are so intrigued with trading for OBJ that they called the Giants and offered assets then they must have long term plan that will not cripple the team. That’s basically what I’m saying. In short I’m trusting in what Snead/McVay thinks what’s best for the team. This isn’t like it was pre-Snead when the Rams would go out and get a guy like Drew Bennett and pay him big bucks only for it to be really bad and mess up the salary cap for the Rams. I lived through those times and I’m sure you did too and it wasn’t pretty.

[stl4life07]

So I was listening to the Stephen A. Smith show on podcast and he said on the show today that Gary Myers who has an article in the New York Daily news said that according to his sources say OBJ spoke to two Rams players and said he wants in. That he wants to play for the Rams. Stephen A. Smith said he believes Meyers because he is excellent at what he does. Stephen A. Smith also said ESPN hasn’t confirmed it though.

Did anyone else hear this from Stephen A. Smith on his show today? I find that interesting.

[JonStark]

16 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

I mentioned that with Fisher because Snead was the GM too. We have no idea if Snead wanted OBJ too had he fallen to the Rams. Also with the LSU connection, it’s a brotherhood no matter what side of the ball it’s on. Trust me I know. As for cap, the Rams are very strategic that they know ahead of time situations. They wouldn’t even be thinking about being interested in OBJ if they had major concerns with him as a player/person or how it would effect the team in terms of its long term plans. So when I hear about the Rams being interested in OBJ, I’m not thinking it’s an epic fail waiting to happen. I’m thinking Snead/McVay must know what they are doing or else they wouldn’t even waste their time calling and offering assets to the Giants.

I get wanting to trust Snead/Mcvay. I'll back pretty much whatever they do at this point, even if this happens and I'm not a fan initially. But you said it yourself, we have no idea if Snead wanted OBJ. We also have no idea on the long term plans. Odds are they have a plan for Donald and Goff, but what if OBJ and his insane contract cost us to lose Gurley when he hits FA with Bell possibly setting a new trend for RB? Let's say we keep Gurley too, Peters and/or Joyner would be gone. It's impossible to keep them all long term, and I would rather have everyone I mentioned relative to their cost over OBJ, who has had his share of injuries as well as on and off the field issues.

I just don't want to mortgage the future, both compensation and cap wise for someone who is throwing temper tantrums on the sideline and charging head first into a defenders helmet after the play was over. If he is past that kind of behavior, then sure, but it doesn't seem like he is.

[stl4life07]

27 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I get wanting to trust Snead/Mcvay. I'll back pretty much whatever they do at this point, even if this happens and I'm not a fan initially. But you said it yourself, we have no idea if Snead wanted OBJ. We also have no idea on the long term plans. Odds are they have a plan for Donald and Goff, but what if OBJ and his insane contract cost us to lose Gurley when he hits FA with Bell possibly setting a new trend for RB? Let's say we keep Gurley too, Peters and/or Joyner would be gone. It's impossible to keep them all long term, and I would rather have everyone I mentioned relative to their cost over OBJ, who has had his share of injuries as well as on and off the field issues.

I just don't want to mortgage the future, both compensation and cap wise for someone who is throwing temper tantrums on the sideline and charging head first into a defenders helmet after the play was over. If he is past that kind of behavior, then sure, but it doesn't seem like he is.

You right. If signing OBJ means losing a guy like Gurley then no. As much as I love OBJ, I love Gurley more lol. It’s going to be interesting though to see what happens. I don’t personally think OBJ gets traded but if he does it’s going to be within a month. Can’t imagine the Giants not getting a first round pick in this years draft.