Chinaski_86 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, JBURGE25 said: I am not going to argue Ajayi isn't worth a 4th rounder... what is the hit % on a 4th rounder being a productive NFL player? cmon now Exactly. The Eagles gave up a 4th rounder for a 24- year old RB who is still on his rookie contract. His cap hit next year is $760.000. They can let Blount walk after this year if they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, CWood21 said: But that's not what was being implied. It seemed to be implied that you're fine with using picks consistently on soon-to-be FA who aren't full-time players. Ajayi had only one game in the regular season where he played in more than 50% of the offensive snaps. And now he's a pending FA. That's not a good model for success. If the Eagles didn't win the Super Bowl, and instead were one-and done would be applauding what the Eagles did? I'm not opposed to doing it every now and then, but it's not something that's sustainable. Jay is under contract next year. Yes I would applaud that move even if the Eagles didn't win. A 4th round pick isn't a back breaker by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Jay is under contract next year. Yes I would applaud that move even if the Eagles didn't win. A 4th round pick isn't a back breaker by any means. For some reason, I thought he was an expiring contract. And it's not just the Ajayi deal itself. It's consistently doing those kind of deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: For some reason, I thought he was an expiring contract. And it's not just the Ajayi deal itself. It's consistently doing those kind of deals. Yes but the Eagles haven't shown a precedent of doing that like say Seattle, so I don't see how we can punish them for doing it once. I don't think you can make a habit of trading draft picks, but when you get young, cheap talent I'm OK with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The Ajayi deal is the outlier to an otherwise usual poor formula. Very rare to get that good of a player on such a cheap deal for a 4 rounder and it sounds like Ajayi forced his way out of Miami to aid it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 37 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Because look at what the Eagles just gave up at the deadline to land Ajayi. They gave up a 2018 4th round pick in order to do so. Based on what transpired, it's an easy win. But what if they didn't win the Super Bowl, does that make it a great deal? They just gave up a potential long-term asset for a temporary fix. Hell, he was only a part-time back in Philadelphia. You can't give up long-term assets for short-term fixes, and assume that's a sustainable model. Too many teams have tried and failed. GB used a 4th on Williams and a 5th on Jones. How is it much different? Neither of them played more than 50%. Ajayi had a track record of being able to perform in the NFL. Mid-late round picks (day 3) are crap shoots. The success rate is not great, so getting a part time starter is a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 48 minutes ago, CWood21 said: It works in a short-term model, but it doesn't really work in a long-term model. Dont necessarily disagree with that....and its certainly less constrained when you have a QB playing for chicken feed as opposed to "highest % of CAP space" range - (and probably about to go a bit higher) but, if they're sharp with their evaluations and take advantages of opportunities.....it can come together. I've no problem whatsoever for a 4th for Ajayi. Draft a 4th rounder you might hope for year one contribution - which Ajayi more than provided. In other words, I'm not opposed to trades - if your talent evaluators are sharp and quick about things - but GB pulls off precious few of them. Not a complaint - just an observation, but I think an accurate one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Yes but the Eagles haven't shown a precedent of doing that like say Seattle, so I don't see how we can punish them for doing it once. I don't think you can make a habit of trading draft picks, but when you get young, cheap talent I'm OK with it. We're not punishing the. You're trying to use an unsustainable model, and trying to paint it as the process to build a franchise. Does anyone truly believe that Nick Foles is going to play at the same level as he did this postseason? Let's give credit where credit is due, but don't overthink this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, squire12 said: GB used a 4th on Williams and a 5th on Jones. How is it much different? Neither of them played more than 50%. Ajayi had a track record of being able to perform in the NFL. Mid-late round picks (day 3) are crap shoots. The success rate is not great, so getting a part time starter is a win. LIS, the occasional deal I'm not opposed to. But consistently giving up those kind of picks aren't a smart business model. And I'd also argue that Ajayi is the exception not the rule to available players. You're usually talking about guys who are rotational players at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Leader said: I've no problem whatsoever for a 4th for Ajayi. Draft a 4th rounder you might hope for year one contribution - which Ajayi more than provided. In other words, I'm not opposed to trades - if your talent evaluators are sharp and quick about things - but GB pulls off precious few of them. Not a complaint - just an observation, but I think an accurate one. It's not the Ajayi trades I'm opposed to, it's the Sheldon Richardson trades I'm opposed to. The Seahawks traded a 2nd round pick for Sheldon Richardson, for what? They didn't make the playoffs, and that hurts their long-term model for their franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: We're not punishing the. You're trying to use an unsustainable model, and trying to paint it as the process to build a franchise. Does anyone truly believe that Nick Foles is going to play at the same level as he did this postseason? Let's give credit where credit is due, but don't overthink this. I'm completely lost at this point, you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing. I've said the Eagles have a really nice roster because they made some savvy FA moves, made some impact draft picks in the last few drafts and made a nice mid season trade. How is this unsustainable to you? What does Nick Foles have to do with anything? You're acting like we're back on the sign every big name FA and trade our high picks Madden arguments of years past. The definition of sustainable NFL rosters are, drafting well and making savvy FA moves. Your argument makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I'm completely lost at this point, you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing. I've said the Eagles have a really nice roster because they made some savvy FA moves, made some impact draft picks in the last few drafts and made a nice mid season trade. How is this unsustainable to you? What does Nick Foles have to do with anything? You're acting like we're back on the sign every big name FA and trade our high picks Madden arguments of years past. The definition of sustainable NFL rosters are, drafting well and making savvy FA moves. Your argument makes no sense. I'm making the argument that what they did wasn't that they somehow found a magical recipe to winning. They're doing what every other 31 franchises do. Fortunately for them, their FA acquisitions worked out, they had the ball bounce their way, and they got unsustainable success out of players who likely won't be able to repeat that. I mean, the Aaron Rodgers' fumble several years ago against Arizona is a PRIME example of this. The Eagles didn't do anything different, they just had luck on their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: LIS, the occasional deal I'm not opposed to. But consistently giving up those kind of picks aren't a smart business model. And I'd also argue that Ajayi is the exception not the rule to available players. You're usually talking about guys who are rotational players at best. Has PHI done it consistently? https://www.rosterresource.com/nfl-philadelphia-eagles/ Ajayi (2018 4th) Darby (2018 3rd) Jernigan + 2017 4th for (2017 3rd) Sproles 2014 5th round pick Peters 2009 None of those trades were bad deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm making the argument that what they did wasn't that they somehow found a magical recipe to winning. They're doing what every other 31 franchises do. Fortunately for them, their FA acquisitions worked out, they had the ball bounce their way, and they got unsustainable success out of players who likely won't be able to repeat that. I mean, the Aaron Rodgers' fumble several years ago against Arizona is a PRIME example of this. The Eagles didn't do anything different, they just had luck on their side. How hard is it to say the Eagles have a really nice roster? Because they do. That's what everyone else said and you called it unsustainable. Nick Foles isn't the Eagles QB, Carson Wentz is. They have a young QB, a good defense and a solid group of OL and skill guys. They will be around for awhile. I called them the greatest threat to us back in October, they blossomed a lot faster then I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm making the argument that what they did wasn't that they somehow found a magical recipe to winning. They're doing what every other 31 franchises do. Fortunately for them, their FA acquisitions worked out, they had the ball bounce their way, and they got unsustainable success out of players who likely won't be able to repeat that. I mean, the Aaron Rodgers' fumble several years ago against Arizona is a PRIME example of this. The Eagles didn't do anything different, they just had luck on their side. How is that much different that what GB did to win a Super Bowl in 2010? Woodson, Pickett FA that worked out. Hit on draft picks Rodgers, Collins, Matthews, Raji etc. Was GB able to continue it. NO... if the metric is winning the super bowl. You cant say that PHI won't be able to sustain it until you see how things play out over the next few years. Odds are they won't be able to, but outside of NE, no team has sustained their success to that level. Lets see if PHI is able to make a string of playoffs and deep playoff runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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