2018 HOF Class Discussion Thread

[base615]

Just now, Thaiphoon said:

He didn't troll you. He was debating you. The fact that you are not handling that very well, does not give you license to break forum rules.

By your own admission, you snapped. That' usually when you shouldn't post.

Again, take him to task for his argument. Stop with the insults, please.

I disagree. I argued with him for multiple posts yet he kept saying the same thing even after I answered him multiple times. That is trolling by anyone’s definition.

[diamondbull424]

33 minutes ago, Danger said:

1. Jerry Rice (Not debatable)
2. Owens
3. Moss

Huge drop off after these three, but Antonio Brown and Fitzgerald might be in the conversation for 2-5 when they're both done.
(most people disagree with me on 2/3 but whatevs)

 

Calvin Johnson should quite easily be in the top 5. Fitz is good and all, but definitely not as dominant as Megatron.

[Danger]

4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Calvin Johnson should quite easily be in the top 5. Fitz is good and all, but definitely not as dominant as Megatron.

He would be if he had played a few more seasons, certainly had the talent and the ability to be, but he just didn't feel like playing anymore.

 

Calvin Johnson in his career ranks

Receptions: 11619 (29th)
Receiving Yards: 731 (44th) 
Receiving Touchdowns: 83 (22nd)

As good as he was, in this day and age with the league being as pass happy as it is, I just can't put him in the top 5. Hell even top 10 I'm hard pressed.

[diamondbull424]

Just now, Danger said:

He would be if he had played a few more seasons, certainly had the talent and the ability to be, but he just didn't feel like playing anymore.

But I just can’t agree with elevating Fitz over him knowing that C.J. was the much more dominant player. He also had a much better peak. And his near 2000 yard receiving season alone should secure him that spot. I understand longevity, but I think that’s only an argument for players of similar skill that is difficult to separate from another. With Megatron and either Brown or Fitz, I don’t think it’s close enough for longevity to matter.

[Thaiphoon]

7 minutes ago, base615 said:

I disagree. I argued with him for multiple posts yet he kept saying the same thing even after I answered him multiple times. That is trolling by anyone’s definition.

He was actually being consistent in his posts in trying to explain his point. Which you didn't understand. He defended his position that he thought you were incorrect. He was not posting to incite you or make you angry. It was literally not trolling, at all. The fact that you got angry because of it, was not his fault, but yours. And he wasn't the first one you insulted on this thread, either.  

Either way, I'm done trying to help you stay on the right side of Webby's justice. Just lay off the personal attacks, please.

[Danger]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

But I just can’t agree with elevating Fitz over him knowing that C.J. was the much more dominant player. He also had a much better peak. And his near 2000 yard receiving season alone should secure him that spot. I understand longevity, but I think that’s only an argument for players of similar skill that is difficult to separate from another. With Megatron and either Brown or Fitz, I don’t think it’s close enough for longevity to matter.

Fitz Stats are leaps and bounds ahead of Calvin Johnson's. If Calvin Johnson was 6'0 205 lbs and ran a 4.5 40. I don't think people would rate him as highly as they do.

[base615]

2 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

He was actually being consistent in his posts in trying to explain his point. Which you didn't understand. He defended his position that he thought you were incorrect. He was not posting to incite you or make you angry. It was literally not trolling, at all. The fact that you got angry because of it, was not his fault, but yours. And he wasn't the first one you insulted on this thread, either.  

Either way, I'm done trying to help you stay on the right side of Webby's justice. Just lay off the personal attacks, please.

I understood exactly what he kept saying, doesn’t stop it being bollocks though. Whatever.

[Thaiphoon]

3 minutes ago, Danger said:

Fitz Stats are leaps and bounds ahead of Calvin Johnson's. If Calvin Johnson was 6'0 205 lbs and ran a 4.5 40. I don't think people would rate him as highly as they do.

One problem is that the criteria for HOF seems to evolve as the voters change. For example, would Joe Namath be in the HOF if we applied today's metrics? OR even metrics vs QBs in his day? Its a good question. How about Lynn Swann? There's an argument to be made that if not for his team's appearance in the SBs and his performance in the playoffs and SB, that he would not be in the HOF. 

So even though Fitz has better metrics, Calvin was the more dominant player when he played. That has to factor in somewhat.

[diamondbull424]

11 minutes ago, Danger said:

Fitz Stats are leaps and bounds ahead of Calvin Johnson's. If Calvin Johnson was 6'0 205 lbs and ran a 4.5 40. I don't think people would rate him as highly as they do.

Meh. I look at it more like if we’re talking video games and we all universally agreed that Final Fantasy 7 is a better game than say COD Black Ops, it should mean that’s it’s better. Whether Black Ops has better replay value shouldn’t matter.

Now if both video games are on the same level, then replay value comes into play.

In terms of if Megatron was 6’0” 205 lbs, I would still have him in the top 5. How many receivers have put up over 1900 receiving yards in a single season? He also had the greatest 3 year peak of any wide receiver in football of all time. So regardless of height he’d be there, though I’m not going to lie... the h/w/s part of it does add to what makes him so dominant.. so you can’t take that away from him.

[Jetzger]

Pleasantly surprised that both Moss and Owens got in.  Them, Lewis and Dawkins were easily the best players on the ballot IMO.  It kind of baffles me how much of a media darling Urlacher was even though he displayed constant disdain for the media.  Can't say I would have put him in when guys like Fanaca, Hutchinson, Holt, Gradishar etc. were on the ballot, but whatever.

 

And Jason Whitlock is a hack, good on TO for calling him out.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

2 hours ago, Danger said:

I mean can you blame him?

Whitlock is just some Journalist who never played the game, and has the audacity to say "Were it up to me you would be kept out for good, but our mighty organization of people who write about your sport as a whole have now given you our blessing."

T.O. is a hall of famer without a doubt, the fact that he had to wait to his 3rd year is a joke and Whitlock looks like a dbag more than TO for this exchange.

This. What is Owens supposed to say to something like that? It's his shining day of glory and Whitlock wants to make it about himself by giving Owens a backhanded compliment. Whitlock is a dirtbag. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

2 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

He's the first non-stickum-using WR I can remember ever getting in on the first ballot.  The GOAT, without a doubt.

Steve Largent, Paul Warfield, Lance Alworth, and Raymond Berry all used stickum?

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, Uncle Buck said:

He undoubtedly deserves to be in, but when considering his immature behavior, I have no problem whatsoever with the way they made him wait a couple years.  Having said that, Whitlock's comment was ridiculous.

There are guys in the HOF that have done far worse than not getting along with their quarterbacks and coaches. 

Ray Lewis was connected to a double murder and initially indicted for it. Yet he got in right off the jump. Lawrence Taylor was a drug addict during and after his career. Randy Moss quit on the field multiple times. 

[Small Town Values]

Top quality class. Perhaps, it’s time to end my boycott?

Happy for T.O. & Dawk most of all.

While I admit - Lewis, Moss, & Urlacher all deserved to be first ballot guys, it doesn’t change the fact T.O. was equally worthy of this honour. Holding him out two years is an embarrassment, & damaging to the hall’s integrity. 

The first ballot guys will rightfully headline this class, but T.O. deserves to stand on equal footing. Unfortunately, this is a wrong the hof can never right. 

[base615]

1 minute ago, Marc MacGyver said:

Top quality class. Perhaps, it’s time to end my boycott?

Happy for T.O. & Dawk most of all.

While I admit - Lewis, Moss, & Urlacher all deserved to be first ballot guys, it doesn’t change the fact T.O. was equally worthy of this honour. Holding him out two years is an embarrassment, & damaging to the hall’s integrity. 

The first ballot guys will rightfully headline this class, but T.O. deserves to stand on equal footing. Unfortunately, this is a wrong the hof can never right. 

Yep, TO was wronged big time.