2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

That is what essentially happened in 2017.

Randall is gone and House is a FA currently.

If GB is expecting Tramon Williams to be a #1 CB, I am not sure the thinking behind that.

It happened because everything literally went to crap last year.  Damarious Randall was playing poorly, Rollins got hurt, etc.  King was forced into that position by default.  Right now, the best thing the Packers can do is throw as many bodies into the mix and let them battle it out.

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

How much of that is based on hope?  Right now, that list consists of a bunch of #2s nobody of which has really created any real separation.

King was a 1st round prospect that played well last year. When the time came for us to play any of the big boys last year, it was King on them and he held his own. 

Tramon got 3m guaranteed, that's starting CB money to you? They wanted Tramon in the battle, but he's not promised a thing.

[packfanfb]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Even if it's a 1 year structure, I'd bet that Tramon Williams will be one of the starting CBs.  The only way he's relegated to your 3rd corner is if your young corners are balling out.

So what exactly is your position moving forward? On the one hand, your posts seem to agree with me that King as a No. 1 is a risky, scary proposition based on "hope." Yet, your position that Tramon is our other starter seems to suggest you'd not be in favor of adding a Breeland or DRC. Do you think we need another bona fide "starting" CB added to the roster? Are you comfortable with King+Tramon+2nd/3rd rounder+the scraps left on our team? Would you be okay with just adding House+rookie? 

[squire12]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

It happened because everything literally went to crap last year.  Damarious Randall was playing poorly, Rollins got hurt, etc.  King was forced into that position by default.  Right now, the best thing the Packers can do is throw as many bodies into the mix and let them battle it out.

That's just it.  From 2017:  

Randal = gone

Rollins  = Achilles injury likely never will be or was able to be a #1 B

House = stiff unsigned

So if King can't beat out a 34 year old Williams, then King has certainly not made a second year jump.

#1 CB is King's job.

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

King was a 1st round prospect that played well last year. When the time came for us to play any of the big boys last year, it was King on them and he held his own. 

Tramon got 3m guaranteed, that's starting CB money to you? They wanted Tramon in the battle, but he's not promised a thing.

I wasn't trying to imply that he was a promised thing, but given his history and his play last year he's going to get the first crack at the top CB.  If he fails or King balls out in camp, then the discussion shifts.  But until then, Tramon Williams is your #1 CB by default IMO.

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

So what exactly is your position moving forward? On the one hand, your posts seem to agree with me that King as a No. 1 is a risky, scary proposition based on "hope." Yet, your position that Tramon is our other starter seems to suggest you'd not be in favor of adding a Breeland or DRC. Do you think we need another bona fide "starting" CB added to the roster? Are you comfortable with King+Tramon+2nd/3rd rounder+the scraps left on our team? Would you be okay with just adding House+rookie? 

In an ideal world, you re-sign Davon House to a 1 year deal and then draft a corner late 1st, early 2nd.  Roll with Tramon/King/House/DP as your top 4 CBs, and then let Rollins/Waters/Pipkins/Mid-Round DP battle out for the last two spots.

I'm not opposed to adding a 2nd CB.  I'm just skeptical that a veteran CB is going to want to come to Green Bay without a more definitive role.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

That's just it.  From 2017:  

Randal = gone

Rollins  = Achilles injury likely never will be or was able to be a #1 B

House = stiff unsigned

So if King can't beat out a 34 year old Williams, then King has certainly not made a second year jump.

#1 CB is King's job.

So the argument is he's the #1 CB by default?

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

I wasn't trying to imply that he was a promised thing, but given his history and his play last year he's going to get the first crack at the top CB.  If he fails or King balls out in camp, then the discussion shifts.  But until then, Tramon Williams is your #1 CB by default IMO.

I 100% disagree.

Tramon was #3 in ARI, if Gute signed him as his #1 to open camp, he needs his brain checked.

Tramon is a vet they wanted to add to the room, he's a depth signing and a presence in that room. He's pretty much never been the #1 with Woodson on the roster, and now at 35 he is? No way.

Tramon is insurance, not the solution.

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So the argument is he's the #1 CB by default?

The argument is he is currently the best CB on the Green Bay Packers. Just like Josh Jones is the best SS on the Green Bay Packers.

This is how the draft works. You take players high and they start for your team. You're arguing that you don't want to sign a bunch of guys and bounce King to the bench, yet you're arguing against him being the guy. Doesn't make sense.

[squire12]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I wasn't trying to imply that he was a promised thing, but given his history and his play last year he's going to get the first crack at the top CB.  If he fails or King balls out in camp, then the discussion shifts.  But until then, Tramon Williams is your #1 CB by default IMO.

 

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So the argument is he's the #1 CB by default?

SO it is OK for you to place Tramon WIlliams as the #1CB by default but not OK for others to have Kevin King the #1 CB by default?   That seems like stellar reasoning.

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I 100% disagree.

Tramon was #3 in ARI, if Gute signed him as his #1 to open camp, he needs his brain checked.

Tramon is a vet they wanted to add to the room, he's a depth signing and a presence in that room. He's pretty much never been the #1 with Woodson on the roster, and now at 35 he is? No way.

Tramon is insurance, not the solution.

Absolutely.  If GB is expecting Williams to come in at 34 years old and go from a #2/3CB in ARI last season to the #1CB in GB, that is some flawed thinking.  Since leaving GB, Williams has more bad seasons than good, I get he played well last year, but expecting that type of play again as a #1CB is putting a lot of faith in the fountain of youth of Tramon Williams.  

[ThatJerkDave]

10 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

So what exactly is your position moving forward? On the one hand, your posts seem to agree with me that King as a No. 1 is a risky, scary proposition based on "hope." Yet, your position that Tramon is our other starter seems to suggest you'd not be in favor of adding a Breeland or DRC. Do you think we need another bona fide "starting" CB added to the roster? Are you comfortable with King+Tramon+2nd/3rd rounder+the scraps left on our team? Would you be okay with just adding House+rookie? 

I think it might be best to wait until after the draft to add a Breeland, DRC, House, whomever else.  If we select Ward, a line up of King-Ward-Tramon is pretty good, I would want the 4th CB to be either a young cheap guy, or a special teams ace like Jarrett Bush.  These vets haven't been linked to a lot of activity, they very well could be there waiting for a team like the Packers that gives them a shot at major playing time for a playoff contender.

[pollino14]

37 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So you're telling me, that you're comfortable with him lining up across from the opposing team's #1 WR all next year?

Comfortable or not, it doesn’t matter. We’re going in with Kevin King as our #1. There’s no evidence that remotely suggests otherwise .

[Mr. Fussnputz]

With all the injuries at CB over the last two years, quality depth should be the major issue, not who is the #1 CB. Right now the depth is shaky. King's shoulder, Tramon's age, Pipkin's inexperience, etc. Both DRC & Breeland would look good to me. And a high draft pick. And maybe even Eric Reid so Jones could play some sort of slot safety/LB hybrid. 

Right now the boundary corners are (comments in parentheses are IMHO):

King (shoulder concerns, and that will continue to be a concern until he shows he can hold up over the course of the season)

Williams (scary old)

Pipkins (although may be better at slot corner)

Hawkins (good speed, but hasn't shown any starter ability)

Waters (all potential and switching positions)

Rollins (Achilles tendon injury concerns, better in the slot)

Brown (no starting ability)

Goodson (never recovered from the horrific knee injury)

This list should scare any GM. Of all the positions on the roster, this one is in the greatest need of a major talent infusion. All avenues of talent acquisition should be used. Either DRC or Breeland (if healthy) would immediately project into a starting role. Losing Shields, Heyward, and DR for different reasons were big blows. Think of how different the depth chart would look with those three added to the depth chart as healthy, productive members. Only getting Tramon out of free agency would be another big blow. Even acquiring Reid (a safety) would at least free up Jones to help in the slot. I will admit I'm not a big fan of drafting a rookie and plugging him in as a starter. 

[jontat83]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

With all the injuries at CB over the last two years, quality depth should be the major issue, not who is the #1 CB. Right now the depth is shaky. King's shoulder, Tramon's age, Pipkin's inexperience, etc. Both DRC & Breeland would look good to me. And a high draft pick. And maybe even Eric Reid so Jones could play some sort of slot safety/LB hybrid. 

Right now the boundary corners are (comments in parentheses are IMHO):

King (shoulder concerns, and that will continue to be a concern until he shows he can hold up over the course of the season)

Williams (scary old)

Pipkins (although may be better at slot corner)

Hawkins (good speed, but hasn't shown any starter ability)

Waters (all potential and switching positions)

Rollins (Achilles tendon injury concerns, better in the slot)

Brown (no starting ability)

Goodson (never recovered from the horrific knee injury)

This list should scare any GM. Of all the positions on the roster, this one is in the greatest need of a major talent infusion. All avenues of talent acquisition should be used. Either DRC or Breeland (if healthy) would immediately project into a starting role. Losing Shields, Heyward, and DR for different reasons were big blows. Think of how different the depth chart would look with those three added to the depth chart as healthy, productive members. Only getting Tramon out of free agency would be another big blow. Even acquiring Reid (a safety) would at least free up Jones to help in the slot. I will admit I'm not a big fan of drafting a rookie and plugging him in as a starter. 

I think Edge pushes it close considering Perry's injury history and Clay being a shadow of the player he once was. Depth isn't much there either unless they expect Biegel to make a jump next season.