Draft Discussion 3.0

[Pruitt3443]

So just throwing this out there as a thought. I am guessing they are taking a QB (Darnold) with the first pick. I am not sold on  any of the OTs in this draft and I am thinking Fitzpatrick is not the choice and Chubb and Barkley may both be gone. 

With the retirement of Joe Thomas and assuming they do not get blown away with any trade offers for #4, what would you think about moving Bitonio to LT and drafting Quenton Nelson to play LG at 4? I know interior linemen are usually not that high a choice but I think he might be the BPA at that point and could certainly fill a need if Bitonio can handle the tackle spot.

You could still pick up a corner like Alexander at 33 and a WR at 35 and a RB at 64.

[MSURacerDT55]

13 hours ago, bruceb said:

I do not see a #1 corner in this draft.

Mostly a lot of maybes and could bes, including Ward.

If you are going to burn a top pick on a player that player had better be an impact player.

Otherwise, you punt.

You literally have to say that about any prospect in this draft. 

 

13 hours ago, bruceb said:

What aggressive scheme?

CBs 7-10 yards off the OL.

FS near the North Pole.

If you are talking about incessant failed blitzing, ya it was aggressive.

Personally, I would characterize it as wimpish.

Sigh......

 

- If you don't believe in the corners you inherit, you want them to do something they aren't good at doing, getting burnt continuously when you know from the start they aren't good in the first place? come on bro?

- FS is near the North Pole because Williams doesn't believe in the CBs so he declared that you have to beat him with small ball

- His double dog blitzes were his most effective blitzes 

- This post reeks of an ill-informed fan, so according to you we should just press up and get beat time after time, Williams did the best he could with the talent he had.

- Please learn the intricacies of the game 

- Wimpish? seriously? I actually give Williams credit for having the foresight to know his DBs were garbage and being smart enough to set his defense to bend but not break mode instead of reckless like you suggest.

 

[MSURacerDT55]

12 minutes ago, Pruitt3443 said:

what would you think about moving Bitonio to LT and drafting Quenton Nelson to play LG at 4? I know interior linemen are usually not that high a choice but I think he might be the BPA at that point and could certainly fill a need if Bitonio can handle the tackle spot.

It all depends on how our FO feels about Nelson, and how we feel about Bitonio's ability to sustain a whole season at LT. My only question of him is his pass blocking ability against speed rushers, in the run game he would actually be an upgrade (JT was a position blocker supreme, Bitonio is a people mover) I personally wouldn't be mad at it, but think of the backlash if Barkley is still on the board. 

[NudeTayne]

47 minutes ago, SweetFancyMoses said:

If Buffalo offered the following for the #4 pick,   would you take it?

Round 1, Pick 12 (12) (From Bengals)             
Round 1, Pick 22 (22) (From Chiefs)            

Round 2, Pick 21 (53)             
Round 2, Pick 24 (56) (From Rams)

Yes, and it makes perfect sense for both teams. The Browns will be getting a premium on their top 5 draft pick while the bills will be keeping the 2019 draft intact as far as picks. All this for a top 5 pick at quarterback is totally reasonable from a Buffalo fan base as well. If they get their guy, everyone will be happy.

[NudeTayne]

4 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

It all depends on how our FO feels about Nelson, and how we feel about Bitonio's ability to sustain a whole season at LT. My only question of him is his pass blocking ability against speed rushers, in the run game he would actually be an upgrade (JT was a position blocker supreme, Bitonio is a people mover) I personally wouldn't be mad at it, but think of the backlash if Barkley is still on the board. 

I am hoping we can trade back from for with the New York Jets. There are 7 or so elite players in this draft as far as what their potential looks like. Quenton Nelson, Bradley Chubb, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Saquon Barkley in addition to quarterbacks... Someone will be sitting there at pick number 6 even after a trade down. Nelson has at least got to be considered.

[SweetFancyMoses]

45 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'd pull the trigger on that for sure. I may holdout and ask for more, but if they wouldn't give it to me, I'd definitely roll with that.

3 1sts

5 2nds

ME LIKEY!!!!!

They might go for this as a counter offer: 

2018

Round 1, Pick 12 (12) (From Bengals)             
Round 1, Pick 22 (22) (From Chiefs)            

Round 2, Pick 24 (56) (From Rams)

Round 3, Pick 1 (65) (From Browns)

2019 2nd Round Pick

[FGK]

1 hour ago, SweetFancyMoses said:

If Buffalo offered the following for the #4 pick,   would you take it?

Round 1, Pick 12 (12) (From Bengals)             
Round 1, Pick 22 (22) (From Chiefs)            

Round 2, Pick 21 (53)             
Round 2, Pick 24 (56) (From Rams)

I don't think they'd give up that much, and I don't think it would take that much for me. (Now, would I try to hard ball and see if I could get this package? Sure. But I think we'd end up lower.)

When dealing with pick hypothetical stuff like this, I try to turn it into real players. So, let's say we only get the earlier 2nd from Buffalo, and then a 2 or 3 next year. Would I rather have....

One of: Fitzpatrick, Chubb, Ward, or Barkley

Or ALL of: Jackson/Ward (a top CB), Harold Landry, and say... Equanimeous St. Brown, or Anthony Miller, etc.

I would take the package of guys. Especially since that puts us in a really good place to take a developmental tackle at the top of round 2.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

44 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

You literally have to say that about any prospect in this draft. 

 

Sigh......

 

- If you don't believe in the corners you inherit, you want them to do something they aren't good at doing, getting burnt continuously when you know from the start they aren't good in the first place? come on bro?

- FS is near the North Pole because Williams doesn't believe in the CBs so he declared that you have to beat him with small ball

- His double dog blitzes were his most effective blitzes 

- This post reeks of an ill-informed fan, so according to you we should just press up and get beat time after time, Williams did the best he could with the talent he had.

- Please learn the intricacies of the game 

- Wimpish? seriously? I actually give Williams credit for having the foresight to know his DBs were garbage and being smart enough to set his defense to bend but not break mode instead of reckless like you suggest.

 

I think there is a middle ground in between smelling the WR’s breath pre-snap and not being able to holler trash talk and be heard.

Our CB’s we’re not good, but they are professional NFL quality CB’s.  Jamar Taylor’s best season came the year before when they played a lot more press.  I don’t think they need 12 yard cushions, certainly not in situations when it’s 3rd and 5.

I don’t mind giving CB’s some cushion, nor do I mind having the safety play back a yard or two, but he took both to an extreme.  He made teams pick them apart, and they did, worst passer rating against in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2017&seasonType=REG&akmobile=ios-tablet&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&akcarrier=other&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

As well as the second highest points allowed. Keep in mind we had the second best run defense in YPA in the league, so they literally just threw the ball wherever and whenever they wanted and Williams REFUSED to adapt or even attempt anything different.

[MSURacerDT55]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think there is a middle ground in between smelling the WR’s breath pre-snap and not being able to holler trash talk and be heard.

Our CB’s we’re not good, but they are professional NFL quality CB’s.  Jamar Taylor’s best season came the year before when they played a lot more press.  I don’t think they need 12 yard cushions, certainly not in situations when it’s 3rd and 5.

I don’t mind giving CB’s some cushion, nor do I mind having the safety play back a yard or two, but he took both to an extreme.  He made teams pick them apart, and they did, worst passer rating against in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2017&seasonType=REG&akmobile=ios-tablet&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&akcarrier=other&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

As well as the second highest points allowed. Keep in mind we had the second best run defense in YPA in the league, so they literally just threw the ball wherever and whenever they wanted and Williams REFUSED to adapt or even attempt anything different.

I agree, the only thing missing from your equation is pressure, we didn't get home as much as we needed to given the defense we were in. Our pressure from our front was to some degree a failure, thus why I continually whined about our interior pass rush or lack thereof. When you call defenses like that, you bank on pressure getting home eventually, when you don't you basically die a slow death.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I agree, the only thing missing from your equation is pressure, we didn't get home as much as we needed to given the defense we were in. Our pressure from our front was to some degree a failure, thus why I continually whined about our interior pass rush or lack thereof. When you call defenses like that, you bank on pressure getting home eventually, when you don't you basically die a slow death.

For sure, but to this I’d argue Ogunjobi and Brantley should have seen the field a bit more and perhaps Williams needed to scheme for pressure more.  

Id have love to have seen Jabrill blitz a time or two instead of lining up behind the back judge.

We didn’t have the talent to be great regardless, but I’d argue we’ve had less talented defenses that have played better against the pass in previous years using a more traditional scheme.

[brownie man]

I think 4 QB are gonna go too 4 honestly 

there is going to be a race like no other for these QBs 

I’m going to make a mock soon about it 

but with us Denver Jets Buffalo and Arizona needing QBs as well as possibly the Giants and Dolphins 

someone is gonna fall in love with each one

its just going to be interesting finding out who loves who 

[dawgdish]

2 hours ago, SweetFancyMoses said:

If Buffalo offered the following for the #4 pick,   would you take it?

Round 1, Pick 12 (12) (From Bengals)             
Round 1, Pick 22 (22) (From Chiefs)            

Round 2, Pick 21 (53)             
Round 2, Pick 24 (56) (From Rams)

I'd do this deal. We'd have plenty of ammo to even slide up a little from 12 to get a premium guy still hanging out there around 8 or 9

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

If we’re moving back, I want 2019/2020 picks.

5 of the top 64 is a great haul this year, let’s try to do the same for next year.

[TheeRealDeal]

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If we’re moving back, I want 2019/2020 picks.

5 of the top 64 is a great haul this year, let’s try to do the same for next year.

Amen.

At a certain point you are actually increasing your probability of whiffing on picks as there are only so many hits that come from any given draft. Spreading out your picks over 2 or even 3 years increases your odd of hitting on your picks.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Amen.

At a certain point you are actually increasing your probability of whiffing on picks as there are only so many hits that come from any given draft. Spreading out your picks over 2 or even 3 years increases your odd of hitting on your picks.

Not to mention, most teams undervalue future picks imo.  If you’re willing to be patient you can do really well flipping picks from year to year.