Is RT REALLY a first round need?

[diamondbull424]

So I’ve been thinking about this. With the popularity of the Baby Zues to the Ravens, it’s made me really question... should we even want to take a RT in round one?

There are a number of premium OL options to be had in round 2.

Even without trades it would be likely to secure Tyrell Crosby, Martinas Rankin, or Brian Oniel. I have the first two players as Pro Bowl level right tackle options (4 Star prospects).

So back to the first round, even if Brown is there and there is no discernible trade option available to us, I have to wonder if selecting a WR round one just won’t be the best strategy regardless.

I don’t like selecting based off need, but if we view a receiver talent as the best available and has pro bowl potential... would it really be a waste to pass on a different player (unless that player is Derwin James, but still).??‍♀️

Especially if the best available player is a LT/RT option, why not just pick the best receiver and know that we got “OUR” guy. It would show balls at the very least. Am I wrong in this line of thinking?

What do you guys think?

[BareYourTeeth]

I'd much rather roll with Austin Howard than take an OT high at all.

[Xmad]

I'll take anything on offense, even if that is a solid lineman prospect. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

No, not at all. I'd rather take Austin Howard or a 2nd/3rd rounder and get our guy in the first round. If he's not there, trade the frick back.

[Danand]

We just have to upgrade at right tackle. The chance of getting the right guy increases in the 1. round.

If we are going to do, what the Saints did last year, it doesn't matter which position we pick first. Upgrading the oline is still a larger need than upgrading at wr imo. We could have had everyone to throw to in the first half of last season and it wouldnt have made much difference.

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

We just have to upgrade at right tackle. The chance of getting the right guy increases in the 1. round.

If we are going to do, what the Saints did last year, it doesn't matter which position we pick first. Upgrading the oline is still a larger need than upgrading at wr imo. We could have had everyone to throw to in the first half of last season and it wouldnt have made much difference.

But wouldn’t you agree that a large part of that had to do with injuries to the OL.

Generally, injuries to OL players are quite rare in comparison to the vast majority of positions. So I think I have to chalk it up to freak occurrence moreso than the injury bug our team tends to face on the regular.

If healthy, our OL situation looks a lot better at the beginning of the 2017 season. If healthy though, we can’t say the same for our receiving core. When healthy, they dropped easy passes, tough passes, clutch passes, etc. In every single way they could disappoint they found a way to. Mike Wallace, Chris Moore, and Benjamin Watson were the only mediocre or slightly above options we had that we could rely on.

[DreamKid]

I wouldn't go RT in the 1st, not with this group. As you said barring Derwin James falling, it really would be best to just secure our guy at WR and call it a day. I would also consider Taven Bryan though, interior pass rush pieces like that don't come around often. Most likely the Bengals are going to pick Orlando Brown anyway, they really can't go in any other direction but tackle. 

[drd23]

I wouldn't say its a "1st round need", but it is a need to should ideally be addressed before the end of the 4th round

Howard is an okay stop gap at best, and given Flacco doesn't seem to be much good under pressure any more, the OL should be as good as it can be to give the offense the best chance possible to be productive

[Danand]

5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

But wouldn’t you agree that a large part of that had to do with injuries to the OL.

Generally, injuries to OL players are quite rare in comparison to the vast majority of positions. So I think I have to chalk it up to freak occurrence moreso than the injury bug our team tends to face on the regular.

If healthy, our OL situation looks a lot better at the beginning of the 2017 season. If healthy though, we can’t say the same for our receiving core. When healthy, they dropped easy passes, tough passes, clutch passes, etc. In every single way they could disappoint they found a way to. Mike Wallace, Chris Moore, and Benjamin Watson were the only mediocre or slightly above options we had that we could rely on.

I see us potentially having to replace the OC, the OG could retire in 1-2 seasons, the RT is serviceable, but thats it, the LT misses a couple of games a year and has to play injured. The LG spot has been a revolving door since Osemele left. If the oline crumble, we don't get anything out of the investment in Flacco, the 1. round WR, the new runningback the TE FA etc.

With a better oline, Flacco and the runninggame performed better, no matter that it was average talent at the skill positions.

[diamondbull424]

4 hours ago, Danand said:

I see us potentially having to replace the OC, the OG could retire in 1-2 seasons, the RT is serviceable, but thats it, the LT misses a couple of games a year and has to play injured. The LG spot has been a revolving door since Osemele left. If the oline crumble, we don't get anything out of the investment in Flacco, the 1. round WR, the new runningback the TE FA etc.

With a better oline, Flacco and the runninggame performed better, no matter that it was average talent at the skill positions.

But for each of your concerns I see viable solutions.

OC- Matt Skura. He’s the same size profile as Ryan Jensen. Was actually a college center and was a two time ACC selection. The pro day numbers for both Skura and Jensen were nearly identical.

Whats more, we can always draft another center for competition. This class has some solid options in it. And good centers usually can be had still on day 3.

LG- Alex Lewis. Speaking of Osemele and Yanda, we’ve had a lot of success converting some of the power OTs to OGs. Lewis has the talent and has looked good when inserted into the lineup.

RG- Yanda will eventually retire. That’s what day 3 of the draft is all about. Continue to stack talented options. I mean, Skura was an undrafted center and did an admirable job filling in for Yanda, just imagine if we have a 4th/5th round OT convert filling in for him instead.

RT- We have a stop gap. And I’m not saying we completely forego OT at all. Just simply saying that, this OT class is pretty stacked with potential RT options. And we are very good at developing the OL.

Whereas we’re not nearly as good at developing receivers. So whoever the front office/coaching staff deems as their number one target, I’d rather we take that guy. We’ve been doing a much better job with developing these day 3 receivers as of late. Thus if we’re able to get the ideal receiver and develop that player, maybe we’re finally able to break the WR curse with someone other than Torrey Smith.

[paraven]

13 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

So I’ve been thinking about this. With the popularity of the Baby Zues to the Ravens, it’s made me really question... should we even want to take a RT in round one?

There are a number of premium OL options to be had in round 2.

Even without trades it would be likely to secure Tyrell Crosby, Martinas Rankin, or Brian Oniel. I have the first two players as Pro Bowl level right tackle options (4 Star prospects).

So back to the first round, even if Brown is there and there is no discernible trade option available to us, I have to wonder if selecting a WR round one just won’t be the best strategy regardless.

I don’t like selecting based off need, but if we view a receiver talent as the best available and has pro bowl potential... would it really be a waste to pass on a different player (unless that player is Derwin James, but still).??‍♀️

Especially if the best available player is a LT/RT option, why not just pick the best receiver and know that we got “OUR” guy. It would show balls at the very least. Am I wrong in this line of thinking?

What do you guys think?

 

I totally agree, if someone is good enough to take at the end of the first, then take them at 16 and not risk losing out on that guy. Like I said earlier, I'm hoping this "trade back and get value picks" entality is what biscotti was referring too when he said the ravens have been overthinking in past drafts

[Danand]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

But for each of your concerns I see viable solutions.

OC- Matt Skura. He’s the same size profile as Ryan Jensen. Was actually a college center and was a two time ACC selection. The pro day numbers for both Skura and Jensen were nearly identical.

Whats more, we can always draft another center for competition. This class has some solid options in it. And good centers usually can be had still on day 3.

LG- Alex Lewis. Speaking of Osemele and Yanda, we’ve had a lot of success converting some of the power OTs to OGs. Lewis has the talent and has looked good when inserted into the lineup.

RG- Yanda will eventually retire. That’s what day 3 of the draft is all about. Continue to stack talented options. I mean, Skura was an undrafted center and did an admirable job filling in for Yanda, just imagine if we have a 4th/5th round OT convert filling in for him instead.

RT- We have a stop gap. And I’m not saying we completely forego OT at all. Just simply saying that, this OT class is pretty stacked with potential RT options. And we are very good at developing the OL.

Whereas we’re not nearly as good at developing receivers. So whoever the front office/coaching staff deems as their number one target, I’d rather we take that guy. We’ve been doing a much better job with developing these day 3 receivers as of late. Thus if we’re able to get the ideal receiver and develop that player, maybe we’re finally able to break the WR curse with someone other than Torrey Smith.

If we are so bad at developing wide receivers, getting one in the 1. round and then just wasting his potential because we can't coach the position is a bad idea.

Anyways, I don't think it is that bad. The production we got from wide receivers are most likely not much worse than other places in the NFL. The difference is we invest the least in the position, and once we finally did, he turned out to be the 2-3 biggest bust in franchise history.

You have a lot of "if's" in your Oline analysis, and I don't really agree with it. Skura didn't play that well, and while he could improve, he would add another unknown to the oline shuffle. Alex Lewis has missed how many games to injuries? I don't know if I consider him a safe spot on the oline. He is one more year with 6-8 games lost to injury away from becoming another injury bust.

Just as the OT class is stacked, so is wide receiver, and most media pundits agree that the value is in round 2-4 at the position.

Howard might be a Willie Anderson stop gap solution, but if we have to rely on Ken Mckusicks analysis, he needed a lot of help from tight ends this year. An RT who can hold his own better frees up the tight end/FB/RB to get into his route.

I am not opposed to go wide receiver in the 1. round, but so far I am neither as impressed with DJ Moore as some of you guys, and I will continue to value oline more than 90% on american forums because I think the oline overall is just a better investment. 5 guys who can hold their own and don't need help, who can open up running lanes and protect long enough to let receivers break free is imo what made the Cowboys succesfull a year ago, the Eagles great this year, made Dalton look like and NFL mvp etc. etc.

[DontTazeMeBro]

Huge need? No. Valuable? Yes. If you get a really good one. If we can add a piece that takes us to being one of the best OLines in the league(not sure that’s Brown) I would take that over a WR unless that WR looks like an elite player

And if WR is still a need by the draft I’m considering this offseason a failure 

[Danand]

37 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

Huge need? No. Valuable? Yes. If you get a really good one. If we can add a piece that takes us to being one of the best OLines in the league(not sure that’s Brown) I would take that over a WR unless that WR looks like an elite player

And if WR is still a need by the draft I’m considering this offseason a failure 

I don't think we should expect anything more than bringing Wallace back for another 2-3 year contract, a 2 year contract for homesick Torrey Smith and a resigning of Campanaro. That leaves us with Wallace, Moore, Smith, Campanaro, Adeboyejo, Tim White and maybe Breshad Perriman and also a TE like Graham we pick up.

Then we most likely look at an oline consisting of Stanley, Lewis, Skura, Eluemanor, Yanda, Howard, Gillmore (Nembot etc. may also be in the mix). Both positions are pretty much set but could certainly use some addition and influx of talent, which could come via the draft based on value.

This is where we disagree about need. Fortunately there are plenty of weeks before the draft. DJ Moore could prove he can do more than being Jarvis Landry v.2 (just kidding) and Brown could be exposed as lazy, other OT's have something else not going for them, and Ridley/Washington/whoever then have a bad shoulder/knee exposed at the combine, and the board is flipped upside down.

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, Danand said:

If we are so bad at developing wide receivers, getting one in the 1. round and then just wasting his potential because we can't coach the position is a bad idea.

Anyways, I don't think it is that bad. The production we got from wide receivers are most likely not much worse than other places in the NFL. The difference is we invest the least in the position, and once we finally did, he turned out to be the 2-3 biggest bust in franchise history.

You have a lot of "if's" in your Oline analysis, and I don't really agree with it. Skura didn't play that well, and while he could improve, he would add another unknown to the oline shuffle. Alex Lewis has missed how many games to injuries? I don't know if I consider him a safe spot on the oline. He is one more year with 6-8 games lost to injury away from becoming another injury bust.

Just as the OT class is stacked, so is wide receiver, and most media pundits agree that the value is in round 2-4 at the position.

Howard might be a Willie Anderson stop gap solution, but if we have to rely on Ken Mckusicks analysis, he needed a lot of help from tight ends this year. An RT who can hold his own better frees up the tight end/FB/RB to get into his route.

I am not opposed to go wide receiver in the 1. round, but so far I am neither as impressed with DJ Moore as some of you guys, and I will continue to value oline more than 90% on american forums because I think the oline overall is just a better investment. 5 guys who can hold their own and don't need help, who can open up running lanes and protect long enough to let receivers break free is imo what made the Cowboys succesfull a year ago, the Eagles great this year, made Dalton look like and NFL mvp etc. etc.

I don’t agree. I think there are just as many “ifs” with our OL as their are with our WR position right now.

OL- We have Stanley, Lewis?, Skura??, Yanda, Howard?

WR- We have Chris Moore?, ??, ??

I’d argue that Moore is nothing more special than the potential we’ve seen from Lewis.

At least with the OL we have viable solutions. At wide receiver we haven’t one. 

And I think the reason we’re so bad at wide receivers is because we’re always trying to find the guy with the most potential late in the 1st round. Clayton and Perriman could both fit the bill here. Either that or when we take our shot it’s usually not the best receiver class.

Either way, if I had to pick a position to give a “head start” to, I would easily give it to wide receiver.

If you know you’re slow but strong. Would you rather I spot you 30 lbs on your bench or allow you to run 5 yards before I start recording your time? I’d rather do the latter and bank on my strength to look good regardless.

Though I know some would rather build up an elite strength. It’s just after that 2006 season with the caliber of that elite  defense that was wasted because of a poor offense, I’d rather build up a good team all around... which is what we had in 2013 when we won the Super Bowl.