Kyle Murphy

[cannondale]

37 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

So you're not a fan of Andrew Norwell? Wouldn't take Mitch Morse? It's overrated. if they bend they can be fine.

I'll disagree with that. Inside guys have shorter arms because you're fighting in a phone booth. You also want to keep guys closer to you for the run game. Long guys inside are not suited for that. Of course there may be exceptions to every rule.

[HighCalebR]

3 minutes ago, cannondale said:

I'll disagree with that. Inside guys have shorter arms because you're fighting in a phone booth. You also want to keep guys closer to you for the run game. Long guys inside are not suited for that. Of course there may be exceptions to every rule.

Ok disagree. You're wrong on this one. If I can jab you before you can jab me that's advantage me. Keep guys closer to you In the run game?? What? The disadvantage for length is when they're in your chest it's harder to bench them off. If you can get lower than the guy across from you you're going to have much better luck blocking, which means that if Murphy keeps his pads low he'll be fine. There are players that will give him some fits sure but that's a LOT of the guards in the league. A very good amount of the taller starting tackles could easily convert to G, good players are going to find a way to get it done. Those players are out there because it's the most valuable spot.

So how tall is too tall? 6'6" is too tall but 6'5" is just right? 1 inch reall going to prevent him from being any good in there?  Having tall guys inside isn't nearly as uncommon as you're making it out to be. 

[cannondale]

1 minute ago, HighCalebR said:

Ok disagree. You're wrong on this one. If I can jab you before you can jab me that's advantage me. Keep guys closer to you In the run game?? What? The disadvantage for length is when they're in your chest it's harder to bench them off. If you can get lower than the guy across from you you're going to have much better luck blocking, which means that if Murphy keeps his pads low he'll be fine. There are players that will give him some fits sure but that's a LOT of the guards in the league. A very good amount of the taller starting tackles could easily convert to G, good players are going to find a way to get it done. Those players are out there because it's the most valuable spot.

So how tall is too tall? 6'6" is too tall but 6'5" is just right? 1 inch reall going to prevent him from being any good in there?  Having tall guys inside isn't nearly as uncommon as you're making it out to be. 

And if my arms are shorter - its certainly an advantage on the initial jab inside. The idea in the run game inside - with shorter arms - keeping the guy closer is its harder to reach or throw you aside. I have no problem disagreeing. There is a reason offensive lineman have longer arms on the outside and shorter guys on the inside. That's not opinion, it's fact

[HighCalebR]

2 minutes ago, cannondale said:

And if my arms are shorter - its certainly an advantage on the initial jab inside. The idea in the run game inside - with shorter arms - keeping the guy closer is its harder to reach or throw you aside. I have no problem disagreeing. There is a reason offensive lineman have longer arms on the outside and shorter guys on the inside. That's not opinion, it's fact

Do you want a list of 6'5"+ playing guard in the league?

It's a long list.

 

[HighCalebR]

Kyle Long, Clint Boling, Vladimir Ducasse, Kevin Pamphile, Mike Iupati, Matt Slauson, Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff, Mitch Morse, Zach Fulton, Jack Mewhort, Mike Pouncey, Jermon Bushrod, Brandon Brooks, Joshua Garnett, John Jerry, Brandon Linder, James Carpenter, Graham Glasgow, Travis Swanson, Andrew Norwell, Joe Thuney, Kelechi Osemele, Rodger Saffold, James Hurst, Alex Lewis, Luke Bowanko, Brandon Scherff, Spencer Long, Andrus Peat, Max Unger, Oday Aboushi, Justin Britt, Luke Joeckel, Ramon Foster, David Decastro, Joe Berger.

Those are just the starters. I left out a couple because I didn't even recognize the name. There's less of those tall guys inside because there's less of those guys in the world. There's even more guys playing tackle right now who could convert and go inside.

[spilltray]

Look at wingspan not height. It's not a definite deal breaker and a good portion of those guys struggle with the more compact DT guys too. No one is saying he can't play guard just based on his body type he has better tools for tackle and FWIW, I thought he looked good at T.

[HighCalebR]

39 minutes ago, spilltray said:

Look at wingspan not height. It's not a definite deal breaker and a good portion of those guys struggle with the more compact DT guys too. No one is saying he can't play guard just based on his body type he has better tools for tackle and FWIW, I thought he looked good at T.

I'm sure some of those guys have longer arms and some have shorter. The major problem with taller guys is the lack of bend, that's the biggest factor on if he can go inside or not. I'm really not a Murphy guy but he's definitely flexible. Sure, he's got a chance to be a tackle but I'm not writing him out of the RG conversation just because he's taller. 

[squire12]

IIRC, one of the Murphy scouting comments said he would make a decent OG prospect vs OT.  I think he has ability at RT or OG.

[spilltray]

1 hour ago, HighCalebR said:

I'm sure some of those guys have longer arms and some have shorter. The major problem with taller guys is the lack of bend, that's the biggest factor on if he can go inside or not. I'm really not a Murphy guy but he's definitely flexible. Sure, he's got a chance to be a tackle but I'm not writing him out of the RG conversation just because he's taller. 

It's not bend, it's arm leverage.

[HighCalebR]

Alright I'm out. You're right pad level is unimportant. Dropping an anchor, being able to drive your legs, yeah bend has nothing to do with OL play .

[HighCalebR]

Kelechi Osemele has 36" arms. TFO of here

Mike Iupati has 35" arms.

Kyle Murphy has the shorter arms than 3/4 of that list.

[Norm]

I just want everyone to know I have absolutely no idea what side of this I stand on lol

 

[AlexGreen#20]

Longer arms are definitely better inside. Not all blocking is straight ahead shoving. So much of run blocking is zone style misdirection blocking. Longer arms help with reach blocking.

You see shorter guys inside for several reasons but the primary reason is that length matters more on the edge, and the Tackle spots are more valuable, so taller guys are filtered to those spots. Being shorter helps with leverage, but if guys have a naturally lower base, they can be just fine. 

[HighCalebR]

Someone to say things better than I say things.

[OneTwoSixFive]

Being lower guy means you are pushing the other guy upward as well as backward. That takes away from the anchor the opponent has. What I haven't seen much comment on, is how important fast hands and fighting hands are, to win the battle of who gets their hands where, on the opponent..............not to mention heavy hands in a punch that can stop a charge. Then there is the outside arms technique the Packers teach. Long arms (when playing inside) are still an advantage when they lock out, if the other guy cannot get into you effectively. Quick feet help to stay in the right place to stop the other guy. A big bubble butt is an indicator of core power, so that helps as well. Finally, there is what the lineman has between the ears - coaches want to see a nasty demeanour, they want to see a lineman have the vision to see what is happening outside the small area they are in, and the smarts to do the right thing at the right time.

In short, it is not a single thing, but the combination of many things (I highlighted ten) that add up to how a lineman performs. Squatty, short-armed guys can win by being lower, with fast hands and core power, longer armed taller guys win by keeping the opponent at a distance, steering him and staying between him and the QB/RB maybe with a heavy punch or two to slow the other guy down. 

I guess the ideal guy at guard is maybe 6'4", durable, with a bubble butt, great core power, keeps low in his stance, has long arms along with fast and heavy hands, has the feet to adjust, the smarts and vision to see the bigger picture and the nastiness to enjoy the physicality of the trenches. Unfortunately in real life guards come with varied shape, size, smarts, competitiveness, reaction time, ability, so as @HighCalebR said above, many things factor into getting a win each snap and good guards learn to make the best of whatever attributes they possess.