Ketchup Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Dubz41 said: That's what Minny does. They were the authors of the 'poison pill' contract that the league had to change the rules to prevent. They had to do that to get Cousins to sign. Who else would give a ' bit above average' QB the most money in the league?!? No wonder their trophy case is absolutely empty! Just stop. No matter where Cousins signed, he was getting his guaranteed contract. Jets offered 3 years at 90 million fully guaranteed. Minnesota didn’t ruin anything. It was a logical step for superstar players to get fully guaranteed contracts. Is Cousins a superstar? Arguable BUT he’s by far the best QB to hit the open market since Manning and was destined to be paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Ketchup said: Minnesota didn’t ruin anything. Minnesota ruined my childhood growing up on the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi. We were forced to sing the Twins baseball song in middle school music class when they were in the world series. I've hated border traitors ever since. Lived in Kenosha for awhile too and had to experience the infamous Packers/Cubs fans. Plus, some posts are a bit tongue in cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: Rodgers' Cap Hit Brady's Cap Hit 2013 - $11,650,000 $13,800,000 2014 - $17,550,000 $14,800,000 2015 - $18,250,000 $14,000,000 2016 - $19,250,000 $13,764,000 2017 - $20,300,000 $14,000,000 2018 - $20,562,000 $22,000,000 The packers won the Super Bowl in 2010 then went 15-1 the next year with one of the worst defenses of all time (after Collins went down). What did the Packers do with the with low cap hits in the years after? They played MD Jennings at safety, spent no money anywhere and kept Dom year after year. Even now his cap hit is less than Brady's, this narrative is false. TT just refused to add FA's to the team and pay outgoing ones. We have had plenty of chances to add players around Rodgers and didn't do anything. Rodgers' legacy is fine and always will be. The better legacy to worry about is TT/MM for blowing it with him. They don't deserve a discount from him. With that said with the rising cap and Russ Ball wizardry I am sure we will be fine. Will we add quality FAs and pay to keep the right players? That is the real question here. No dispute with that; your first paragraph echoes probably 50% of my posts here. I'm more thinking about the future. Would Rodgers ease up on his rumored desire to be the highest paid QB in the NFL to fit an ODB/Dez/Breaux/Breeland/DRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Ketchup said: Since 2010, Brady has made $123 million. Since 2010, Rodgers has made $109 million. Let's say we go from 2013, when Rodgers signed his extension, Rodgers has made $86.4 million. Since 2013, Brady has made $74 million. Brady doesn't take a discount. Now, as for the cap hits and how the contract is structured, that really has little to do with the player taking a discount. Okay. But someone has to structure it in a very team-friendly way. Hopefully we can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Dubz41 said: The bolded is two different things. Do you offer to take less money at work to further your legacy? I bet not. Plus, if that's what you're judging Aaron on....I can't help you. Hopefully you've read some of the other responses to help explain. The bigger difference between Rodgers and Brady is who their coach was. My work doesn't really produce a legacy, I don't get endorsement money, and I'm not arguing about the difference between being able to afford everything ever at $20 million/year versus affording everything ever at $30 million/year. I'm more focusing on the future. If Rodgers takes less money, he can theoretically have more weapons and a better chance at future Super Bowls. The question is whether that is important enough to him to make a sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, th87 said: My work doesn't really produce a legacy, I don't get endorsement money, and I'm not arguing about the difference between being able to afford everything ever at $20 million/year versus affording everything ever at $30 million/year. I'm more focusing on the future. If Rodgers takes less money, he can theoretically have more weapons and a better chance at future Super Bowls. The question is whether that is important enough to him to make a sacrifice. Yes. I get it. Seems unreal for normal folk. How much is enough? I just get tired of people 'sainting' TB. We all leave a legacy. Just saying....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 10 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: Rodgers' Cap Hit Brady's Cap Hit 2013 - $11,650,000 $13,800,000 2014 - $17,550,000 $14,800,000 2015 - $18,250,000 $14,000,000 2016 - $19,250,000 $13,764,000 2017 - $20,300,000 $14,000,000 2018 - $20,562,000 $22,000,000 The packers won the Super Bowl in 2010 then went 15-1 the next year with one of the worst defenses of all time (after Collins went down). What did the Packers do with the with low cap hits in the years after? They played MD Jennings at safety, spent no money anywhere and kept Dom year after year. Even now his cap hit is less than Brady's, this narrative is false. TT just refused to add FA's to the team and pay outgoing ones. We have had plenty of chances to add players around Rodgers and didn't do anything. Rodgers' legacy is fine and always will be. The better legacy to worry about is TT/MM for blowing it with him. They don't deserve a discount from him. With that said with the rising cap and Russ Ball wizardry I am sure we will be fine. Will we add quality FAs and pay to keep the right players? That is the real question here. This statement does not make any sense. Your own numbers show that prior to this current offseason, Arod's cap hit was significantly higher than Brady's. To talk about that stretch as if they were all like the 2013 numbers is not an honest analysis. And you can't only look at the salary of 1 player to determine total team cap space. 2011-2017, GB spent 99% of what the cap allowed them to spend. At the end of the day, they didn't sit on hardly any unused money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Dubz41 said: The bolded is two different things. Do you offer to take less money at work to further your legacy? I bet not. Plus, if that's what you're judging Aaron on....I can't help you. Hopefully you've read some of the other responses to help explain. The bigger difference between Rodgers and Brady is who their coach was. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 10 hours ago, TransientTexan said: This statement does not make any sense. Your own numbers show that prior to this current offseason, Arod's cap hit was significantly higher than Brady's. To talk about that stretch as if they were all like the 2013 numbers is not an honest analysis. And you can't only look at the salary of 1 player to determine total team cap space. 2011-2017, GB spent 99% of what the cap allowed them to spend. At the end of the day, they didn't sit on hardly any unused money. 99% of cap? I don't know where you estimate that from. Before you attack my information maybe look up the actual numbers. Here are the cap figures left over after each year... 2013: $11,168,878 2014: $7,802,717 2015: $9,615,069 2016: $9,432,264 2017: $6,538,373 My argument was and is Rodgers' cap number was never hindering us from adding to the roster. The notion that Brady's number is so much lower and that's why the Patriots add players is false. TT always planned ahead which is fine but he missed out on numerous chances to improve the roster around Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 5 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: 99% of cap? I don't know where you estimate that from. Before you attack my information maybe look up the actual numbers. Here are the cap figures left over after each year... 2013: $11,168,878 2014: $7,802,717 2015: $9,615,069 2016: $9,432,264 2017: $6,538,373 My argument was and is Rodgers' cap number was never hindering us from adding to the roster. The notion that Brady's number is so much lower and that's why the Patriots add players is false. TT always planned ahead which is fine but he missed out on numerous chances to improve the roster around Rodgers. Great post. Blaming AR’s contract for Green Bay not adding talent is ridiculous. Yes, Brady’s contract is slightly lower. It being slightly lower has nothing to do with the difference in playoff success. The fact that people think Aaron Rodgers should take 20% or 30% less for the better of the team is ridiculous. The chances are great that he’ll be dropped like dead weight the very second his play on the field dips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegybomb Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: 99% of cap? I don't know where you estimate that from. Before you attack my information maybe look up the actual numbers. Here are the cap figures left over after each year... 2013: $11,168,878 2014: $7,802,717 2015: $9,615,069 2016: $9,432,264 2017: $6,538,373 My argument was and is Rodgers' cap number was never hindering us from adding to the roster. The notion that Brady's number is so much lower and that's why the Patriots add players is false. TT always planned ahead which is fine but he missed out on numerous chances to improve the roster around Rodgers. That's the same amount just rolled over every year. Every decent team leaves a little cushion like that so they don't back themselves into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 5 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: 99% of cap? I don't know where you estimate that from. Before you attack my information maybe look up the actual numbers. Here are the cap figures left over after each year... 2013: $11,168,878 2014: $7,802,717 2015: $9,615,069 2016: $9,432,264 2017: $6,538,373 My argument was and is Rodgers' cap number was never hindering us from adding to the roster. The notion that Brady's number is so much lower and that's why the Patriots add players is false. TT always planned ahead which is fine but he missed out on numerous chances to improve the roster around Rodgers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>NFL Sal Cap Cap Charges 2011: >>>>>>>>$120,375,000 - $115,732,564 = $4,642,436 2012: >>>>>>>>$120,600,000 - $119,093,705 = $1,506,295 2013: >>>>>>>>$123,600,000 - $120,756,853 = $2,843,147 2014: >>>>>>>>$133,000,000 - $134,018,492 = -$1,018,492 2015: >>>>>>>>$143,280,000 - $141,856,037 = $1,423,963 2016: >>>>>>>>$155,270,000 - $155,180,025 = $89,975 2017: >>>>>>>>$167,000,000 - $168,491,403 = $1,491,403 _________________________________________________ Totals>>>>>>>>$963,125,000 $955,129,079 2010 rollover>> $5,200,000 >>>>>>>>>>>>> $968,325,000 $955,129,079/$968,325,000= 98.6% $13,195,921 difference over 7 yrs = $1,885,132 AAV player The cap rollover mechanic makes the cap space deceiving because of the duplication. For example, say a team has cap charges equal to the total salary cap in a given year, but a $10m carryover from the previous year gives them $10m of cap space. Then you look at the same team 5 years later and they have $10m of cap space. That means every year they have been spending up to the cap limit and carrying over the same $10m from year to year. Their "cap space" every year would have shown $10m. That means they could have signed another guy for 1yr-$10m in Year 1 of the span and then had $0 of cap space all the remaining 3 years. Or they could have signed a guy across all 5 yrs for $2m per year AAV with $0 cap space in all of the years. The Brady/Arod difference is pretty significant in the 15-17 timeframes. You can't say that an extra $4-6m a yr doesn't help them add at least one "patch" type guy. If you consider that difference insignificant, I'd think the difference between TT's spending and the max the cap would allow (1.9m AAV) is even more insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 11 minutes ago, TransientTexan said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>NFL Sal Cap Cap Charges 2011: >>>>>>>>$120,375,000 - $115,732,564 = $4,642,436 2012: >>>>>>>>$120,600,000 - $119,093,705 = $1,506,295 2013: >>>>>>>>$123,600,000 - $120,756,853 = $2,843,147 2014: >>>>>>>>$133,000,000 - $134,018,492 = -$1,018,492 2015: >>>>>>>>$143,280,000 - $141,856,037 = $1,423,963 2016: >>>>>>>>$155,270,000 - $155,180,025 = $89,975 2017: >>>>>>>>$167,000,000 - $168,491,403 = $1,491,403 _________________________________________________ Totals>>>>>>>>$963,125,000 $955,129,079 2010 rollover>> $5,200,000 >>>>>>>>>>>>> $968,325,000 $955,129,079/$968,325,000= 98.6% $13,195,921 difference over 7 yrs = $1,885,132 AAV player The cap rollover mechanic makes the cap space deceiving because of the duplication. For example, say a team has cap charges equal to the total salary cap in a given year, but a $10m carryover from the previous year gives them $10m of cap space. Then you look at the same team 5 years later and they have $10m of cap space. That means every year they have been spending up to the cap limit and carrying over the same $10m from year to year. Their "cap space" every year would have shown $10m. That means they could have signed another guy for 1yr-$10m in Year 1 of the span and then had $0 of cap space all the remaining 3 years. Or they could have signed a guy across all 5 yrs for $2m per year AAV with $0 cap space in all of the years. The Brady/Arod difference is pretty significant in the 15-17 timeframes. You can't say that an extra $4-6m a yr doesn't help them add at least one "patch" type guy. If you consider that difference insignificant, I'd think the difference between TT's spending and the max the cap would allow (1.9m AAV) is even more insignificant. Great post Tex. My misunderstanding in my figures was the extension of the cap rollover, I thought it was year to year and not spread out over the span of years. Really appreciate the clarification and the layout you provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: Great post Tex. My misunderstanding in my figures was the extension of the cap rollover, I thought it was year to year and not spread out over the span of years. Really appreciate the clarification and the layout you provided. No problem. Many fans get tripped up by the rollover issue, esp. since the other major sports don't have that type of thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 3/4/2018 at 4:34 PM, skibrett15 said: Leaving this here... These are the top QB contracts for the previous 5 biggest deals (Only Dalton signed, and at below a top guy rate in 2014). Typically the top QBs are getting around 15% of the current total cap as their AAV. Rodgers pushed that envelope a bit, and I'd expect he'll do the same again this time around ( for reference, the same cap % in 2018 would be 30.6 Mil aav) I'll say this. There's no fundamental reason that teams only want to spend 15% of the cap on QB. They've been getting away with it, but it's hardly equitable from a pure economics standpoint as a player's agent. Name Year Pos Team Age Length Total Avg Practical Gtd %Gtd Total cap year of signing AAV % of total cap Matt Ryan 2018 QB ATL 32 5 $150,000,000 $30,000,000 $100,000,000 66.66% $177,200,518 16.95% Matthew Stafford (2017-2022) 2017 QB DET 30 5 $135,000,000 $27,000,000 $92,000,000 68.15% $175,074,000 15.42% Andrew Luck (2016-2021) 2016 QB IND 28 5 $122,970,000 $24,594,000 $87,000,000 70.75% $163,439,000 15.05% Russell Wilson (2015-2019) 2015 QB SEA 29 4 $87,600,000 $21,900,000 $61,542,000 70.25% $151,471,000 14.46% Aaron Rodgers (2013-2019) 2013 QB GB 34 5 $110,000,000 $22,000,000 $54,000,000 49.09% $131,925,000 16.68% Bumping this with the updated salary cap numbers for Matt Ryan. Ryan has now reset the market on QB spending as a percent of cap (17%). Historically this was a number only ever touched by Rodgers, and now Ryan is up there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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