2017 College Football / Scouting

[Rockice_8]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

I’ve never said he’s the answer. I’ve said it’s ifiotic to not play him in a situation like we are in now these last few games to see what he has. I think qb needs to be addressed. But that’s assuming we either don’t play Hack or Hack looks lost. What if he plays these last few games and looks pretty darn good? You’d still want us to sign Cousins or use a top pick on a qb? That seems stupid to use a valuable pick at position where you might have a good young player at. I’d imagine Hack would struggle if he gets to play, so I expect qb to still be a need. But he shouldn’t be pushed aside already at only 22yrs old. He has talent and has been learning.

100% if Hack looks decent down the stretch I would still take a QB.  What is the worst that happens we have two good young QB's.  Hack would have to go out in the last 3 games and throw 10 TD's with no picks and lead us to a 3-0 record to even consider not drafting a QB.  Since we all know that won't happen then 100% I would draft a QB.  Hack can't even beat out Bryce Petty for 2nd string.  Just because he hasn't taken a snap and has all the tools doesn't mean he'll go from bad to good with more reps.  

I'm fine letting him stay as the #3 QB and continue to develop that's fine.  I also want a good QB next year so we actually have a shot to make the playoffs.  Rosen, Darnold, Jackson or Mayfield should be on this team next year.  You want to bring back McCown as insurance should neither Hack nor the rook be ready that's fine but if we go into next season without a major upgrade or hope of a major upgrade with a top pick it is a tremendous failure and Mac should be immediately fired.

[Bobby816]

21 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

100% if Hack looks decent down the stretch I would still take a QB.  What is the worst that happens we have two good young QB's.  Hack would have to go out in the last 3 games and throw 10 TD's with no picks and lead us to a 3-0 record to even consider not drafting a QB.  Since we all know that won't happen then 100% I would draft a QB.  Hack can't even beat out Bryce Petty for 2nd string.  Just because he hasn't taken a snap and has all the tools doesn't mean he'll go from bad to good with more reps.  

I'm fine letting him stay as the #3 QB and continue to develop that's fine.  I also want a good QB next year so we actually have a shot to make the playoffs.  Rosen, Darnold, Jackson or Mayfield should be on this team next year.  You want to bring back McCown as insurance should neither Hack nor the rook be ready that's fine but if we go into next season without a major upgrade or hope of a major upgrade with a top pick it is a tremendous failure and Mac should be immediately fired.

It’s just a difference of opinion. Bc I don’t view Mayfield or Jackson as better qbs than Hack.

[rdelaney89]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

It’s just a difference of opinion. Bc I don’t view Mayfield or Jackson as better qbs than Hack.

This says a lot about how little you think of Mayfield and Jackson or it shows how highly you regard Hack.

There is no way on gods green earth that I hope we pass on either of those 2 because we think Hack is better. I'll be the first one to storm Florham Park with a pitchfork if that happens.

[Rockice_8]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

It’s just a difference of opinion. Bc I don’t view Mayfield or Jackson as better qbs than Hack.

Obviously everyone won't agree on everything but you are talking about the most electric player in college at QB since Vick and a guy who just carried his squad to the college playoffs beating the likes of multiple ranked teams including Ohio St along the way.  Hack had one average season in college as a freshmen and has done nothing since.  All we remember about Hack was that he was broken in college and needed to be "fixed" and has so far come to the NFL and in preseason when it's supposed to scaled back and easier he has been nothing short of laughable.  

This doesn't guarantee Jackson becomes a better version of Vick or Mayfield is the next Wilson/Brees but these guys dominated college while Hack was average at best.  I hope Hack is fixed and in the next year or two shows something but I'm not betting on it.

[Dr.O]

16 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

It’s just a difference of opinion. Bc I don’t view Mayfield or Jackson as better qbs than Hack.

...What?

[Bobby816]

I think Mayfield has attitude issues for starters. I also don’t think his play transfers over to the NFL. Regardless of his attitude, I see a lot of Manziel in his game. Which didn’t transfer over. And I see a poor mans Mariota in Jackson. And in a few seasons we see how hard it’s been for mariota to stay healthy. Jackson if anything relies more on his legs than mariota did.

[GangGreen420]

We’ve been “rebuilding” for 4 years. What exactly have we built so far? Not enough, that’s for sure.

IMO the mandate needs to be a winning season for Mac and Bowles next year. Anything less, goodbye

Im not sure they will go the rookie route unless it’s a guy they really like. They may push for Cousins but honestly don’t be surprised if they are okay going with ANOTHER crappy vet/McCown again for a 4th straight year.

[rdelaney89]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

I think Mayfield has attitude issues for starters. I also don’t think his play transfers over to the NFL. Regardless of his attitude, I see a lot of Manziel in his game. Which didn’t transfer over. And I see a poor mans Mariota in Jackson. And in a few seasons we see how hard it’s been for mariota to stay healthy. Jackson if anything relies more on his legs than mariota did.

Manziel is not out of the NFL because of his play, he's out because he is too wrapped up in drugs.

Poor man's Mariota sounds good to me over Hack. He's literally shown nothing to warrant Hack being on the same level as either of those 2 players.

[GangGreen420]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think Mayfield has attitude issues for starters. I also don’t think his play transfers over to the NFL. Regardless of his attitude, I see a lot of Manziel in his game. Which didn’t transfer over. And I see a poor mans Mariota in Jackson. And in a few seasons we see how hard it’s been for mariota to stay healthy. Jackson if anything relies more on his legs than mariota did.

This. It’s not even about his attitude. That’s just the icing 

I’m not okay with drafting an undersized big 12 QB in the top half of the first round. It’s way too risky to me.

And Mariota just isn’t good this year. He’s pretty bad actually. I’d certainly be concerned with what I’ve seen from him this year. Jackson to me is safer than Mayfield, but IMO Rosen and Darnold are the clear 1-2.

If Mayfield can win Oklahoma a title this year and sort of replicates what Watson did, I may warm up to him a little more.

[rdelaney89]

2 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

We’ve been “rebuilding” for 4 years. What exactly have we built so far? Not enough, that’s for sure.

IMO the mandate needs to be a winning season for Mac and Bowles next year. Anything less, goodbye

Im not sure they will go the rookie route unless it’s a guy they really like. They may push for Cousins but honestly don’t be surprised if they are okay going with ANOTHER crappy vet/McCown again for a 4th straight year.

My guess is they push for Cousins and then sign McCown of that falls through. IMO that is the way to go before turning all attention to moving up for a QB. So your outline is likely correct with the exception that you believe this staff thinks McCown is a better option than trading up or drafting a rookie. If that is indeed the decision that is made I won't watch the Jets next year.

I don't have the slightest impression that Macc and Bowles want to have McCown as the starter without having a rookie on the roster. 

[Bobby816]

22 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

Manziel is not out of the NFL because of his play, he's out because he is too wrapped up in drugs.

Poor man's Mariota sounds good to me over Hack. He's literally shown nothing to warrant Hack being on the same level as either of those 2 players.

Yes Manziel is out of the NFL bc of his off the field antics. But His in the field play wasn’t good either. If it was good, a team would’ve taken a shot on him already. You package the 2 and it’s not worth it. Manziel had similar off the field issues as Mayfield while still in school. Mouthy on the field, inappropriate guestures to opposing teams, cockiness to a whole other level, etc. I’m not saying Mayfield will have a drinking, drug, violence issue. I’m saying his personality makes him a risk. Now to on the field. I compare him to Manziel bc they’re size, create a lot with there legs to create lanes, spread offenses. All things that don’t transfer over to the nfl.

Now to Jackson. I like him more than Mayfield. But any run 1st qb is a huge risk. Not only from an injury perspective, but from a perspective of “can they play in the pocket” perspective. Bc they just can not be a franchise QB by running around. They have to have elite arm talent and vision to succeed. I don’t see that in Jackson. I see a guy that creates. Works great in college but is virtually absolete in the NFL. He’s a big guy to watch in the pre draft process. If he can show accuracy and arm talent along with making reads inside the pocket. I’d be all for taking him. But at this stage in the draft process, I have no reason to think he can do that.

[Dr.O]

35 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think Mayfield has attitude issues for starters. I also don’t think his play transfers over to the NFL. Regardless of his attitude, I see a lot of Manziel in his game. Which didn’t transfer over. And I see a poor mans Mariota in Jackson. And in a few seasons we see how hard it’s been for mariota to stay healthy. Jackson if anything relies more on his legs than mariota did.

He plays nothing like Manziel, Manziel couldn't function in a structured offense and half the time just threw it up for Mike Evans. Baker spreads the ball around reads defenses and has Solid mobility. Jackson is just as good of a QB coming out of a less gimmicky offense than Mariota only difference is Jackson has a much better arm and is more athletic, see no reason why he can't replicate what Mariota has done so far in the league.

[jetskid007]

I've been the biggest Hack supporter, but the odds are still stacked against him. Best case scenario is he shows good in game action this year to give Maccagnan a pause. Maybe instead of mortgaging significant draft capital for a QB, go out and get another veteran stopgap (maybe Alex Smith, Josh McCown again) and re-evaluate from there. Who knows, maybe it clicks for Hackenberg and he wins the job, or at the very least shows enough in 2018 offseason to give the Jets brass confidence that he'll be ready for 2019. 

Ultimately, we should all be rooting for Bryce or Hack playing their tails off enough for the Jets to feel confident about them being able to become a franchise QB. Anything can happen in this league... Kirk Cousins didn't get his opportunity to be a full-time starter until his 4th year, age 27 season (Bryce will be entering his 4th year and will be 27). Maybe Hackenberg can take a Rodgers/Rivers/Schaub/Pennington like career trajectory and go from barely playing to being a solid, hopefully spectacular player. Anything can happen, and I won't write anyone off until it doesn't. 

[rdelaney89]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Yes Manziel is out of the NFL bc of his off the field antics. But His in the field play wasn’t good either. If it was good, a team would’ve taken a shot on him already. You package the 2 and it’s not worth it. Manziel had similar off the field issues as Mayfield while still in school. Mouthy on the field, inappropriate guestures to opposing teams, cockiness to a whole other level, etc. I’m not saying Mayfield will have a drinking, drug, violence issue. I’m saying his personality makes him a risk. Now to on the field. I compare him to Manziel bc they’re size, create a lot with there legs to create lanes, spread offenses. All things that don’t transfer over to the nfl.

Manziel Timeline

Mayfields incident was public intoxication from a 21 year old kid. Honestly if that is his black mark off the field I'm okay with it. As far as the flag plant and the crotch grab, dude backed up everything with his play on the field. I hate the publicity maybe but I don't have a real problem with it. I'd have concern if he came off like he was only half interested in football but from what it looks like Mayfield is 100% dedicated. He walked on twice and has played lights out.

9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Now to Jackson. I like him more than Mayfield. But any run 1st qb is a huge risk. Not only from an injury perspective, but from a perspective of “can they play in the pocket” perspective. Bc they just can not be a franchise QB by running around. They have to have elite arm talent and vision to succeed. I don’t see that in Jackson. I see a guy that creates. Works great in college but is virtually absolete in the NFL. He’s a big guy to watch in the pre draft process. If he can show accuracy and arm talent along with making reads inside the pocket. I’d be all for taking him. But at this stage in the draft process, I have no reason to think he can do that.

If Rosen/Darnold/Mayfield are off the board and we were unable to land Cousins, I'd have no problem rolling the dice on Jackson. He's raw as a passer but has improved each year and he has physical gifts we haven't seen since Vick. Not just his acceleration but the speed he puts on a ball is insane, I can't wait to see it come combine time; I don't think anyone will top him. My biggest concern is if his body can withstand an NFL beating, no run first QBs have really succeed long term because of the beating. I think he has a lower floor than a lot of other potential picks but his ceiling is so beyond anyone else that it's worth the risk.

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

Manziel Timeline

Mayfields incident was public intoxication from a 21 year old kid. Honestly if that is his black mark off the field I'm okay with it. As far as the flag plant and the crotch grab, dude backed up everything with his play on the field. I hate the publicity maybe but I don't have a real problem with it. I'd have concern if he came off like he was only half interested in football but from what it looks like Mayfield is 100% dedicated. He walked on twice and has played lights out.

If Rosen/Darnold/Mayfield are off the board and we were unable to land Cousins, I'd have no problem rolling the dice on Jackson. He's raw as a passer but has improved each year and he has physical gifts we haven't seen since Vick. Not just his acceleration but the speed he puts on a ball is insane, I can't wait to see it come combine time; I don't think anyone will top him. My biggest concern is if his body can withstand an NFL beating, no run first QBs have really succeed long term because of the beating. I think he has a lower floor than a lot of other potential picks but his ceiling is so beyond anyone else that it's worth the risk.

I just won’t ever agree with you about Mayfield. So there’s no sense in going round and round about it. You like him, I dislike him.