MSURacerDT55 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Yeah I'm not a Hurst fan. He's a rotational player and I don't think he's big enough to hold up against the run and lock out NFL OG's or explosive enough to generate a pass rush. He's a nightmare against zone blocking teams that try to move and reach him, but there are so few NFL teams that employ this system. He's easily washed out, trapped, and doubled in power run schemes. I love his motor and tenacity, but there's a real concern that he won't be able to hold up against power guards and tackles. His lower body just doesn't do it for me, he's really savvy, has good hands but him being a constant dominant force (especially if he's drafted high) won't happen. Teams will be salivating for him to blow up the field so they can combo and trap the life out of him. I just don't think his hamstrings can hold up against a Kelechi Osemele or Richie Incognito at the next level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: That's funny because I coach in real life and know exactly what to look for while watching film. If you cannot understand the terminology and ideologies, please don't comment or critique those who have a trained eye, it's extremely disingenuous. Be nice to yourself and seek a greater knowledge and understanding of the game and HOW to effectively watch film, thanks. But it's a lot more fun to be a condescending know it all and puff out your chest on a draft forum, refuse to ever admit when you're wrong, and when someone calls you out you'll just ignore it for a few days until you make your next "hot take". #draftforum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, MWil23 said: But it's a lot more fun to be a condescending know it all and puff out your chest on a draft forum, refuse to ever admit when you're wrong, and when someone calls you out you'll just ignore it for a few days until you make your next "hot take". #draftforum Pretty much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chwf3rd25 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Da_Ducktator said: The major problem is the way he wins doesn't hold up at the NFL. That's shown by him getting completely erased by Ohio State and Wisconsin in both games the last two years. Hurst wins from timing snaps, something that's much easier to do in the college level than the pro level. I just don't see Hurst being anything more than a rotational guy at the next level. Undersized, short arms, average explosiveness, disappeared against the two best O-Lines he faced. I get the concerns regarding the combination of how he wins and his below average athletic measurables, especially in light of the fact that the best undersized 3 Techs in the NFL all had elite testing numbers. But I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that just because he's explosive off the ball and doesnt have great jumps = he's timing the snap and not actually explosive. Plus his vertical jump was in the 71st percentile which isn't terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Great to take the time for the list. I would move WR Antonio Callaway way down in the draft just on his character red flags. I think 5th round at best. Have a look at Deon Yelder TE, Western Kentucky. I was surprised he was not on your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winitall Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, MWil23 said: But it's a lot more fun to be a condescending know it all and puff out your chest on a draft forum, refuse to ever admit when you're wrong, and when someone calls you out you'll just ignore it for a few days until you make your next "hot take". #draftforum As a neutral observer reading through the thread I am struggling to see why @CWood21 is being attacked over this. He actually provided well thought out analysis and provided actual examples of what he was talking about. Saying something is 300000% False and then providing some generic phrases after that doesn't hold any weight compared to what was already said. Show some examples of what you are talking about if you want to make a point, throwing around random phrases does nothing for the debate. Saying he's consistently three or four yards off the line is fine if you back it up. If you don't back it up how are people supposed to respond? "300000% False. He is on the line of scrimmage all the time." That is a pointless debate. It doesn't add any analysis. Back in high school I'm sure you had to analyze some books, I'm guessing your teacher didn't let you get away with just going "The theme of the book is so and so". You probably needed examples to back that up. Why is this any different? I am not trying to call anyone out in specific, it's something the forum as a whole is struggling with. Everyone is giving their opinion about players but there is little substance. I am sure I am guilty of that too but as a forum we should try and back things up with something if we are contradicting someone else. That's how people learn and become more informed. EDIT: My bad MWil23 if you weren't talking about CWood. I meant to make the point more general but was definitely not meaning to put words in your mouth if that's not who you were agreeing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 8 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: That's funny because I coach in real life and know exactly what to look for while watching film. If you cannot understand the terminology and ideologies, please don't comment or critique those who have a trained eye, it's extremely disingenuous. Be nice to yourself and seek a greater knowledge and understanding of the game and HOW to effectively watch film, thanks. You'll have to excuse me if your "internet credentials" don't keep me from looking for you to legitimately prove your point. I made a comment without context, and when pushed I offered up a game video with specific points backed by specific times. And when I asked for you to support your argument with points, I get this. If this is the "discussion" we're going to have, I'm not going to waste my time. But acting in a condescending way doesn't make your point any more valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Listen everyone, we don't all have to get along, but we need to dump the talking down to people and condescension. This is not the atmosphere we want or need in here. We've seen these kind of things derail threads before, and we are trying to prevent that. Don't agree with another poster? Fine, either state your case and back up what you are saying, or just move on. We don't need to keep this going back and forth where there is nothing of substance and the only thing being contributed is disdain. It's okay to have differing opinions without looking down on someone else's. It does no good for the discussion in this forum, and honestly it's a disservice to @Chwf3rd25 and the thread. So if we want to continue the thread, lets get back to the topic at hand, which is OP's rankings. Disagree? Curious about why he's high or low on someone? Ask some questions and lets have a civilized debate about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, Forge said: Listen everyone, we don't all have to get along, but we need to dump the talking down to people and condescension. This is not the atmosphere we want or need in here. We've seen these kind of things derail threads before, and we are trying to prevent that. Don't agree with another poster? Fine, either state your case and back up what you are saying, or just move on. We don't need to keep this going back and forth where there is nothing of substance and the only thing being contributed is disdain. It's okay to have differing opinions without looking down on someone else's. It does no good for the discussion in this forum, and honestly it's a disservice to @Chwf3rd25 and the thread. So if we want to continue the thread, lets get back to the topic at hand, which is OP's rankings. Disagree? Curious about why he's high or low on someone? Ask some questions and lets have a civilized debate about it. I know this is pretty much referring to me, just a reminder that this guy came at me and my supposed "bad takes", this guy always tries to come at me so of course im going to defend myself. If the guy has an issue with me, he can inbox me and we can address it like men and move on. On 3/25/2018 at 2:58 PM, CWood21 said: Are your draft takes always this bad? @ForgeIm sure you are going to address this guy coming at me and for the sake of the thread i'll keep it draft related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said: I know this is pretty much referring to me, just a reminder that this guy came at me and my supposed "bad takes", this guy always tries to come at me so of course im going to defend myself. If the guy has an issue with me, he can inbox me and we can address it like men and move on. @ForgeIm sure you are going to address this guy coming at me and for the sake of the thread i'll keep it draft related Unfortunately MSU some mods (Not you Forge) seem to be above the rules and have a hard time keeping things to football. @Forge is the gold standard of what a mod is TBH. Some others are a complete joke and seem to enjoy condescension and elitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said: I know this is pretty much referring to me, just a reminder that this guy came at me and my supposed "bad takes", this guy always tries to come at me so of course im going to defend myself. If the guy has an issue with me, he can inbox me and we can address it like men and move on. @ForgeIm sure you are going to address this guy coming at me and for the sake of the thread i'll keep it draft related Nah man, not about you, so I don't want you to take it that way. I just want to nip it in the bud before it gets out of control. Thats why I didn't want to call anyone out and just left it generalized. Next thing we know, we're going to be going 4 pages talking smack about some receiver's ability to toe drag, you know? And I definitely didn't want that to happen in Chwf's thread given he took the time to put the rankings together. This forum is always going to get heated because people have more disagreements here given how small some of the differences can be in what we see causing such large differences in opinion. I just don't want it to get full on hostile. I want everyone to pretty much run free and get some good debate going on, I just don't want it to get super out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Unfortunately MSU some mods (Not you Forge) seem to be above the rules and have a hard time keeping things to football. @Forge is the gold standard of what a mod is TBH. Some others are a complete joke and seem to enjoy condescension and elitism. Thank you, sir, greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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