5 Possibilities for Pick No. 14 in the 2018 NFL Draft

[packfanfb]

35 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

I am really not against taking two edge guys off the bat, while CB is a chronic need I see players in the free agent pool and later in the draft that can help us out. Bar the first couple of rounds. the depth in rushers ain't great nor are there any semi decent free agent 'hole fillers' either. Plus Clay will get moved around a bit and not sure if he'll be in Green Bay after this year and that both him and Perry can't be counted on to be fit for a full season.

This. Unless a guy like Hughes or Oliver is sitting there at 45, I'd love our first 2 picks to either be EDGE/EDGE or EDGE/WR. There are still a handful of solid CBs left in FA, we just need to get off our *** a sign one or two of them. Personally I'd sell out for Breeland AND a guy like House or Breaux. Add a 3rd or 4th round CB to compete, but not be expected to start or be the first guy off the bench as a rookie. We need a starting WR and a No. 2-3 EDGE in the draft who can both contribute immediately and those guys are pretty much gone in the FA market. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, cannondale said:

Anyone else wonder if Gute will be ok with Matthews / Perry / Biegel for another year considering we have other holes to fill ?

 

If he feels that way, he's a moron, and I don't think he's a moron. 

[cannondale]

18 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

If he feels that way, he's a moron, and I don't think he's a moron. 

To clarify, I meant the first two rounds.

I'm thinking outside the box. I have no idea one way or another

Is it possible he considers CB, OL, WR bigger needs ?

King is still the only real starter at CB - kind of.  Allison starts across from Davante with Cobb in the slot. The whole right side of the line is in flux

[CWood21]

22 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

I've narrowed it down to Mike Hughes, Derwin James, Leighton Vander Esch and Harold Landry.

Don't think Tremaine Edmunds or Denzel Ward will be there but obviously there will be of great interest if they are.

Don't think we'll be high on Davenport, I like him a lot but I think our staff puts a higher value on explosion and agility than size and strength. 

Forgot to touch base on the other guys you mentioned.  Like James and think he's in the mix.  I think if they take him, it's one of those situation where they take the talent and mold it into the system.  As for LVE, until someone can points me to a more direct example of his pass rush ability that doesn't use his size or athleticism, he's an ILB prospect.  And the Packers have had multiple shots to draft ILBs and they've passed each and every time.  Do you think that's going to change under Gute?  Personally, I don't.

[CWood21]

19 hours ago, packfanfb said:

This. Unless a guy like Hughes or Oliver is sitting there at 45, I'd love our first 2 picks to either be EDGE/EDGE or EDGE/WR. There are still a handful of solid CBs left in FA, we just need to get off our *** a sign one or two of them. Personally I'd sell out for Breeland AND a guy like House or Breaux. Add a 3rd or 4th round CB to compete, but not be expected to start or be the first guy off the bench as a rookie. We need a starting WR and a No. 2-3 EDGE in the draft who can both contribute immediately and those guys are pretty much gone in the FA market. 

I'm pretty darn confident we're not double-dipping into one position.  It's just not a wise use of resources.  Since Ted took over in 2005, the Packers have never used a 1st round pick and a Day 2 pick on the same position.  The "closest" you could make that argument was in 2008 was when the Packers took Jordy Nelson in the 2nd round and Jermichael Finley in the 3rd round, but those are different positions.  We're not going to sign two more veteran FA who are nothing more than stopgap, which essentially puts us in the same place as we are now a year from now.  We'll sign another veteran CB before the draft, draft an EDGE at 14, draft a WR/CB with our 2nd/3rd round pick, and take another CB in the 4th/5th round.

[CWood21]

19 hours ago, packfanfb said:

If he feels that way, he's a moron, and I don't think he's a moron. 

That's not really what he was getting at...he basically meant, is that the position he's most comfortable "punting" to next year.  You can't fix all the holes in one draft.

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

That's not really what he was getting at...he basically meant, is that the position he's most comfortable "punting" to next year.  You can't fix all the holes in one draft.

Exactly. That's why you use FA to fix all the holes you can (i.e. CB) and use the draft to maybe fill a hole or two, the rest to add depth and future starters 2-3 years from now. Why do we have to "punt" a position? Is this a 5-year plan or are we trying to win the SB this year?

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Exactly. That's why you use FA to fix all the holes you can (i.e. CB) and use the draft to maybe fill a hole or two, the rest to add depth and future starters 2-3 years from now. Why do we have to "punt" a position? Is this a 5-year plan or are we trying to win the SB this year?

You think you're going to find multiple long-term starters in a single draft, yes or no?  We have 3 picks in the top 76, and 4 in the top 101.  Let's assume we have a perfect success rate with those four picks, that's four positions that you've "fixed" for the next decade.  Obviously, most would probably choose WR, EDGE, and CB as three of those positions.  The fourth becomes a bit more.  When you drop your success rate down to 75%, you're probably kicking that 4th position to the curb.  Success rate is closer to 50%, so which position are you willing to sacrifice for this year?

Let's simplify this whole thing.  Of those three positions (WR, EDGE, or CB), do you think is better off in 2018 as is?

[Gopackgonerd]

28 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm pretty darn confident we're not double-dipping into one position.  It's just not a wise use of resources.  Since Ted took over in 2005, the Packers have never used a 1st round pick and a Day 2 pick on the same position.  The "closest" you could make that argument was in 2008 was when the Packers took Jordy Nelson in the 2nd round and Jermichael Finley in the 3rd round, but those are different positions.  We're not going to sign two more veteran FA who are nothing more than stopgap, which essentially puts us in the same place as we are now a year from now.  We'll sign another veteran CB before the draft, draft an EDGE at 14, draft a WR/CB with our 2nd/3rd round pick, and take another CB in the 4th/5th round.

Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins were back to back picks 

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins were back to back picks 

Brain fart.  I still remember when they called him out as a safety.  Either way, I stand corrected.

[Gopackgonerd]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Brain fart.  I still remember when they called him out as a safety.  Either way, I stand corrected.

I know I was like Saftey???? Then realized he can play corner

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Forgot to touch base on the other guys you mentioned.  Like James and think he's in the mix.  I think if they take him, it's one of those situation where they take the talent and mold it into the system.  As for LVE, until someone can points me to a more direct example of his pass rush ability that doesn't use his size or athleticism, he's an ILB prospect.  And the Packers have had multiple shots to draft ILBs and they've passed each and every time.  Do you think that's going to change under Gute?  Personally, I don't.

I don't think they view him as an ILB only. He has projection, he's a far better athlete than Chubb and Davenport and a slightly better athlete than Landry. I don't need to see a guy do something in college to want to see him do it in the NFL. If that's the case Landry is a situational rusher, Davenport has no speed move and Derwin can't play slot CB.

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

You think you're going to find multiple long-term starters in a single draft, yes or no?  We have 3 picks in the top 76, and 4 in the top 101.  Let's assume we have a perfect success rate with those four picks, that's four positions that you've "fixed" for the next decade.  Obviously, most would probably choose WR, EDGE, and CB as three of those positions.  The fourth becomes a bit more.  When you drop your success rate down to 75%, you're probably kicking that 4th position to the curb.  Success rate is closer to 50%, so which position are you willing to sacrifice for this year?

Let's simplify this whole thing.  Of those three positions (WR, EDGE, or CB), do you think is better off in 2018 as is?

Zero. "As is" is unacceptable and should not even be a consideration. Via FA, trade, or draft or all the above, you improve those positions, period. EDGE will probably have to be draft because the FA market is weak and good luck getting a good guy in a trade. IMO, you have to EDGE rusher in either 1st or 2nd at the latest. WR the market is drying up so hopefully a few June 1 cuts are coming and we can fill that position because the draft alone won't solve the issue. CB should be solved primarily via FA because there are still several good options left. Hopefully, we land Breeland because he's not a "stop-gap." The guy is 26 and would be a huge pick-up, making him and King your future on the boundary. Would certainly take the pressure off go out CB in rounds 1 or 2 if the EDGE/WR prospects are there.  

[CWood21]

19 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I don't think they view him as an ILB only. He has projection, he's a far better athlete than Chubb and Davenport and a slightly better athlete than Landry. I don't need to see a guy do something in college to want to see him do it in the NFL. If that's the case Landry is a situational rusher, Davenport has no speed move and Derwin can't play slot CB.

But that's my point.  The only thing that anyone is using to cite him as a potential pass rusher is his size and athletic profile.  I mean, at least Tremaine Edmunds has some limited tape of him as a pass rusher.  Does LVE have any tape of him rushing the passer?  You talk about needing to see him do it in college, and I'm hopeful that's an overstatement.  That means you're willing to overlook production based on potential, which is a dangerous road to go.  You look to the past and project to what they can do moving forward.  Can Harold Landry put on a few more pounds and work on his run defense technique to be more than a situational pass rusher?  Meanwhile, Davenport has shown ability to threaten off the edge and Derwin has shown the ability to play slot CB, albeit not in a large sample size.  There's a difference that I think you're trying to blend past.

[CWood21]

24 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Zero. "As is" is unacceptable and should not even be a consideration. Via FA, trade, or draft or all the above, you improve those positions, period. EDGE will probably have to be draft because the FA market is weak and good luck getting a good guy in a trade. IMO, you have to EDGE rusher in either 1st or 2nd at the latest. WR the market is drying up so hopefully a few June 1 cuts are coming and we can fill that position because the draft alone won't solve the issue. CB should be solved primarily via FA because there are still several good options left. Hopefully, we land Breeland because he's not a "stop-gap." The guy is 26 and would be a huge pick-up, making him and King your future on the boundary. Would certainly take the pressure off go out CB in rounds 1 or 2 if the EDGE/WR prospects are there.  

That's my point.  So unless you truly believe there's a FA out there that "fixes" our issues long-term and isn't just a band-aid, you're relying on temporary fixes.  Do you truly believe there are going to be impactful June 1 cuts?  I'd love to hear what kind of WRs, CBs, or EDGEs are suddenly going to become available.