Packerraymond Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: But that's my point. The only thing that anyone is using to cite him as a potential pass rusher is his size and athletic profile. I mean, at least Tremaine Edmunds has some limited tape of him as a pass rusher. Does LVE have any tape of him rushing the passer? You talk about needing to see him do it in college, and I'm hopeful that's an overstatement. That means you're willing to overlook production based on potential, which is a dangerous road to go. You look to the past and project to what they can do moving forward. Can Harold Landry put on a few more pounds and work on his run defense technique to be more than a situational pass rusher? Meanwhile, Davenport has shown ability to threaten off the edge and Derwin has shown the ability to play slot CB, albeit not in a large sample size. There's a difference that I think you're trying to blend past. His production in college was insane last year, I'm basing it on the fact I think he's an elite ILB prospect who can play sub package EDGE. Think 2014 Clay Matthews. These are the kind of guys Pettine is going to want to appear multiple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: His production in college was insane last year, I'm basing it on the fact I think he's an elite ILB prospect who can play sub package EDGE. Think 2014 Clay Matthews. These are the kind of guys Pettine is going to want to appear multiple. As a traditional off-ball LB, absolutely. In terms of production as a pass rusher, he'd be viewed as mediocre at best. I can't see any way they take a sub-package pass rusher over a clear boundary corner (Denzel Ward) or potential starting pass rusher (Harold Landry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: As a traditional off-ball LB, absolutely. In terms of production as a pass rusher, he'd be viewed as mediocre at best. I can't see any way they take a sub-package pass rusher over a clear boundary corner (Denzel Ward) or potential starting pass rusher (Harold Landry). Denzel Ward isn't going to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Agreed. If you have to choose between Edmunds and Landry specifically, you're talking about a guy in Edmunds who's stock is rapidly ascending while Landry was banged up much of last year. Kind of a difficult decision IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: As a traditional off-ball LB, absolutely. In terms of production as a pass rusher, he'd be viewed as mediocre at best. I can't see any way they take a sub-package pass rusher over a clear boundary corner (Denzel Ward) or potential starting pass rusher (Harold Landry). I would add this guy as having pass rush potential as well then. 6’6” 250# 40 YARD DASH: 4.51 SEC BENCH PRESS: 22 REPS VERTICAL JUMP: 30.0 INCH BROAD JUMP: 121.0 INCH 3 CONE DRILL: 6.85 SEC 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.16 SEC 60 YARD SHUTTLE: 11.46 SEC Looks nice right? He’s never rushed the passer either but look at those numbers? That’s OLB material if I’ve ever seen it. But... that’s OJ Howard! Good numbers and size don’t make you a pass rusher. Sure, Edmunds and LVE have blitzed but in no way means you will be a good OLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 23 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: I would add this guy as having pass rush potential as well then. 6’6” 250# 40 YARD DASH: 4.51 SEC BENCH PRESS: 22 REPS VERTICAL JUMP: 30.0 INCH BROAD JUMP: 121.0 INCH 3 CONE DRILL: 6.85 SEC 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.16 SEC 60 YARD SHUTTLE: 11.46 SEC Looks nice right? He’s never rushed the passer either but look at those numbers? That’s OLB material if I’ve ever seen it. But... that’s OJ Howard! Good numbers and size don’t make you a pass rusher. Sure, Edmunds and LVE have blitzed but in no way means you will be a good OLB Come on, that's just bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Packerraymond said: Denzel Ward isn't going to be there. I mean, we're having this discussion as if he'll be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 4/8/2018 at 9:37 PM, Gopackgonerd said: We don't need more than 1 early round EDGE when you already have Clay and Perry, I'd rather take a corner whom has a chance to start than a EDGE who will probably not have as many snaps in the 2nd round. You can never have enough good pass rusher. Also, to think you're 100% sure you hit on both is fools gold. I think our biggest need is to come out of this draft with a bonafide pass rusher. Taking two shots at it increase the percentages of getting one. Do you remember when Wolf went CB in the first three rounds and the only one who panned out was the 3rd rounder, Mike McKenzie? I'd love a stud CB, but Ward is going to be gone and the others are a reach at 14 IMO. Just not sure you can count on Clay as a serious pass rush threat any longer either and Perry does have is troubles staying healthy. Behind them we are very questionable unless you are counting on Gilbert and Biegel. I understand our CB situation is in dire straights right now, but other than Ward, again no one in round 1 is worthy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Golfman said: You can never have enough good pass rusher. Also, to think you're 100% sure you hit on both is fools gold. I think our biggest need is to come out of this draft with a bonafide pass rusher. Taking two shots at it increase the percentages of getting one. Do you remember when Wolf went CB in the first three rounds and the only one who panned out was the 3rd rounder, Mike McKenzie? I'd love a stud CB, but Ward is going to be gone and the others are a reach at 14 IMO. Just not sure you can count on Clay as a serious pass rush threat any longer either and Perry does have is troubles staying healthy. Behind them we are very questionable unless you are counting on Gilbert and Biegel. I understand our CB situation is in dire straights right now, but other than Ward, again no one in round 1 is worthy IMO. Also to be considered is that time has come to transition beyond CM - who may or may not even be on our roster next year. However, I'd rather not burn the top two picks on one position group. We've broader needs - but targeting and selection of "doubling up" talent with later picks would be prudent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Packerraymond said: Come on, that's just bad. My point is that people look ok at LVE and want him at #14 even. Yet he has never rushed as an OLB. Some on here question whether or not Davenport can convert to OLB WHEN HE PLAYED OLB! Just because your a certain size doesn’t make you great at a certain position. He would have to learn from scratch almost. Same as Howard would have to do. Are there tools? Sure but Howard’s 3 cone is also a great tool for OLB as is his size, weight, speed, etc. doesn’t make him an EDGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 54 minutes ago, Leader said: Also to be considered is that time has come to transition beyond CM - who may or may not even be on our roster next year. However, I'd rather not burn the top two picks on one position group. We've broader needs - but targeting and selection of "doubling up" talent with later picks would be prudent. Exactly. Pairing up a first or second rounder, with a 4th, or 5th at the same position, is the way to go this year where several starter-level players are needed. After OLB, CB, WR, and hopefully TE have been addressed, you can get your second player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 3 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said: Exactly. Pairing up a first or second rounder, with a 4th, or 5th at the same position, is the way to go this year where several starter-level players are needed. After OLB, CB, WR, and hopefully TE have been addressed, you can get your second player. That's where "doubling up" makes sense. If you're doubling up much earlier than that, you're probably going to create more issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Golfman said: You can never have enough good pass rusher. Also, to think you're 100% sure you hit on both is fools gold. I think our biggest need is to come out of this draft with a bonafide pass rusher. Taking two shots at it increase the percentages of getting one. Do you remember when Wolf went CB in the first three rounds and the only one who panned out was the 3rd rounder, Mike McKenzie? I'd love a stud CB, but Ward is going to be gone and the others are a reach at 14 IMO. Just not sure you can count on Clay as a serious pass rush threat any longer either and Perry does have is troubles staying healthy. Behind them we are very questionable unless you are counting on Gilbert and Biegel. I understand our CB situation is in dire straights right now, but other than Ward, again no one in round 1 is worthy IMO. I'm just saying if you've addressed EDGE round 1, and you got a good CB you like on the board in round 2, you're probably taking that CB. You're addressing 2 big positions of need early. That's not saying you're 100% confident you hit on a player so you don't have to draft that position anymore. You're drafting 2 good players at 2 big positions of need, that's good drafting. You can double down, I'm not saying you can't or you shouldn't, we've done it in the past. It just doesn't have to be back to back. Hell I'm not even against taking 2 like that if they're good and the board falls like that. I'd just prefer we get both EDGE and CB early if we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said: I'm just saying if you've addressed EDGE round 1, and you got a good CB you like on the board in round 2, you're probably taking that CB. You're addressing 2 big positions of need early. That's not saying you're 100% confident you hit on a player so you don't have to draft that position anymore. You're drafting 2 good players at 2 big positions of need, that's good drafting. You can double down, I'm not saying you can't or you shouldn't, we've done it in the past. It just doesn't have to be back to back. Hell I'm not even against taking 2 like that if they're good and the board falls like that. I'd just prefer we get both EDGE and CB early if we can. I don't disagree, but if have the same pass rush as last year we could have Deion, Charles Woodson and Revis in their prime and we'd still get torched. We need to get to the passer a lot quicker, more efficient to give out DB's a chance. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Golfman said: I don't disagree, but if have the same pass rush as last year we could have Deion, Charles Woodson and Revis in their prime and we'd still get torched. We need to get to the passer a lot quicker, more efficient to give out DB's a chance. Just my two cents. Our pass rush wasn't THAT bad C'mon now lol. We were 17th in sacks. Good Quarterbacks can get the balls out of their hands fast too, it goes both ways, you need a balance of good pass rush and coverage. But that secondary you bolded.... man we'd be one of the best defenses with that trio no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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