Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

[MikeT14]

Nevermind, turtle alluded to it. 

[Skins212689]

Mocks don't have him Smith drafted until later in the 1st but watch his tape and see does he not fit the description I mentioned and would fill a need. 

Who is better or has more upside than Smith if Toppin isn't available at 9 should be the question in my opinion? 

 

 

[turtle28]

15 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Mocks don't have him Smith drafted until later in the 1st but watch his tape and see does he not fit the description I mentioned and would fill a need. 

Who is better or has more upside than Smith if Toppin isn't available at 9 should be the question in my opinion? 

NBA is a weird draft process, they draft almost purely off potential. I love Jaylen Smith, if I had the pick I’d take him over some of guys people are saying we should take but, I doubt it happens. He’s projected in the late teens or 20s. Another reason Smith isn’t viewed as a lottery pick is because while he’s a good shooter for a big and does everything pretty well, he’s not an elite athlete. NBA takes elite athletes thinking they can make them better basketball players early in the draft rather then taking the guys who are near finished products as Basketball players but not elite athletes. 
 

Think when we had the #1 pick when Michael Jordan was here in 2001 and we took Kwame Brown over Shane Battier, Jason Richardson & Pau Gasol; the Bulls took Eddie Curry & the Clippers took Tyson Chandler over the more polished Battier who could’ve played solid D as a SF/PF tweeter and been a good 3 pt shooter for us.

I think GMs see Smith as pretty much a finished product, meanwhile Tyrese Halliburton, Deni Avdija, James Weisman, Onyeka Okongwu, Killian Hayes, Isaac Okoro,  Devin Hassell, Devin Nesmith, Patrick Williams, Precious Achiuwa, Cole Anthony, Tyrese Maxey, Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels and RJ Hampton aren’t viewed that way.

Edited August 22, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

17 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

NBA is a weird draft process, they draft almost purely off potential. I love Jaylen Smith, if I had the pick I’d take him over some of guys people we are saying we should take but, I doubt it happens. He’s projected in the late teens or 20s. Another reason Smith isn’t viewed as a lottery pick is because while he’s a good shooter for a big and does everything pretty well, he’s not an elite athlete. NBA takes elite athletes thinking they can make them better basketball players early in the draft rather then taking the guys who are near finished products as Basketball players but not elite athletes. 
 

Think when we had the #1 pick when Michael Jordan was here in 2001 and we took Kwame Brown over Shane Battier, Jason Richardson & Pau Gasoline; the Bulls took Eddie Curry & the Clippers took Tyson Chandler over the more polished Battier who could’ve played solid D as a SF/P tweeter and been a good 3 pt shooter for us.

I think GMs see Smith as pretty much a finished product, meanwhile Tyrese Halliburton, Deni Avdija, James Weisman, Onyeka Okongwu, Killian Hayes, Isaac Okoro,  Devin Hassell, Devin Nesmith, Patrick Williams, Precious Achiuwa, Cole Anthony, Tyrese Maxey, Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels and RJ Hampton.

I would just hope they started to actually take guys who produce oppose to just being prospects. As you mentioned in your Kwame Brown scenario. Especially if the league is heading into another bubble next season. I want a guy who can produce on the floor right away. Smith and Toppin definitely would do that for us with a added Wall and Beal. Another idea is possibly a trade with Golden State if they are willing to trade down from 2. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

13 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I would just hope they started to actually take guys who produce oppose to just being prospects. As you mentioned in your Kwame Brown scenario. Especially if the league is heading into another bubble next season. I want a guy who can produce on the floor right away. Smith and Toppin definitely would do that for us with a added Wall and Beal. Another idea is possibly a trade with Golden State if they are willing to trade down from 2. 

I’d love that too, Smith, Toppin, Weisman, Okongwu, Okoro, Nesmith and Saddiq Bey seem like guys we could draft and then day one they’d be contributors for us like Rui last year. Maybe not starters depending on what they do w/ Troy Brown Jr, if they keep Rui at PF & Bryant @ C, and who they acquire in free agency or if they make trades but, I think these guys are going to be able to contribute for us day one.
 

Some of those guys contribute more on defense right away, some of them contribute more as a shooter day one.

[Woz]

On 8/16/2020 at 6:20 AM, turtle28 said:

You’re not acknowledging my point that the Wizards/Ernie didn’t keep Nene & some others who were athletic bigs & huge which helped the D more when Whitman was there.

Nene at the end was a shell of himself, and couldn't stay on the court. Ariza was basically forced out when they resigned Webster and drafted Porter (something I laughed about repeatedly when it first happened). Also, a good chunk of it was due to them trying to rehab Vesely as a viable option. Gortat was solid, but getting long in the tooth when they let him go (and also was here for Brooks' first two seasons).

I'm trying to think of others. Okafor was only there for a year. Trevor Booker left as soon as he was able and they didn't do much to try and keep him. Kevin Seraphin? He wasn't good.

Honestly, who are you talking about?

Keep in mind that part of the reason they couldn't keep these alleged D guys was due to the complete mismanagement of the cap.

On 8/16/2020 at 6:20 AM, turtle28 said:

Going from Nene to Morris was a major downgrade in defense and going from Ariza to Pierce/Porter was as well.

Eh, Nene -> Morris wasn't as bad as you make it out to be since Nene couldn't get on the court, but he was worse, yes. Ariza was they're own mistake.

On 8/16/2020 at 6:20 AM, turtle28 said:

Coaches can’t make a player a good defensive player other than coaching them on what they should be doing when they’re on defense. Defense - especially in basketball - is more about Athletic ability, effort and willingness to play hard on that end than actual coaching/talent.

Fair, but at the same time, you don't flirt with historically bad defenses solely due to lack of effort by your players. And if they're so bad at the defense, it says something as you as a coach that you cannot adjust for that throughout the season.

On 8/16/2020 at 6:20 AM, turtle28 said:

I’m talking about trading for him for next year. The 2019-2020 Season is over for the Wizards. Right now Jordan is a back up center who averages 20 min a game but often times plays less than that a game bc Jared Allen is the Nets starting center who’s usually plays 30-35 min a game. 

And given that the Wizards have no assets that anyone wants (beyond Beal, whom they cannot move due to a trade kicker), that would mean trading future trade picks of which they have so few. Maybe 2nd round this year, but is that enough?

On 8/16/2020 at 6:20 AM, turtle28 said:

I don’t know why a player like him wouldn’t want to come here. Wall is one of the best passers in the NBA, Jordan thrived when he played with Chris Paul so he’d do the same with Wall and w/ Jordan’s D & rebounding he’d be a huge improvement over even what they had with Gortat there.

Because they're so far down the list of teams that look viable? That no one knows what condition Wall is going to be in? That Jordan has little to no say in where he goes since he's under contract with the Nets and they might feel they can get a better deal than a 2nd round pick? That it is unclear that Washington could pick up his contract and fit in the cap?

[Woz]

Honestly, the Wizards would be better suited just looking to the draft and not going for "swing for the fences" like deal like trading for Jordan.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

Honestly, the Wizards would be better suited just looking to the draft and not going for "swing for the fences" like deal like trading for Jordan.

Jordan & Ernie, but yes, you’re right. The Randy Foye & Mike Miller trade in 09 still irks me to this day. Obviously Ernie made other mistakes in draft picks like taking Vesley but, that trade was his worse transaction.

Edited August 22, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

I like what I read about Okoro. Seems he could bring a defensive presents that's needed. 

[Woz]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

2 hours ago, Woz said:

Honestly, the Wizards would be better suited just looking to the draft and not going for "swing for the fences" like deal like trading for Jordan.

Jordan & Ernie, but yes, you’re right. The Randy Foye & Mike Miller trade in 09 still irks me to this day. Obviously Ernie made other mistakes in draft picks like taking Vesley but, that trade was his worse transaction.

Meant trading for DeAndre Jordan, but yes, those trades too.

Speaking of which, those trades set the table for the roster for the next five years. Kind of like how trading for DeAndre Jordan could potentially backfire and set the team back as well.

 

Stock picks, pray Wall regains form, use those picks to surround Beal & Wall, and hope it works. That's realistically the best hope for the Wizards for the next couple of years. Losing the lottery hurts in terms of not getting top tier talent, but its not the worst thing in the world to have lowered expectations.

[e16bball]

On 8/21/2020 at 1:26 PM, turtle28 said:

My issue w/ Okoro is that he’s just a 29% shooter from the college 3-pt line. People complain already about TBJ only being a 32% shooter in his second year in the NBA at SG/SF. Yes, Okoro would be a good defensive wing and help Beal out in that regard, but he can’t shoot and that’s an issue.

I’d rather have Devin Vassell or Neismith bc they’re better scorers than Okoro.

I like Vassell as well. More of a team defender than an individual lock-down guy like Okoro, but maybe they need that. The shooting is definitely a big plus, though the fact that he hasn’t been a good FT shooter is concerning — when I’m looking for pure shooters who will translate to the NBA as immediate deep threats, I want to see the FT shooting match the 3pt shooting. But he’s got a good stroke, certainly much more reliable than Okoro at this point.

When you think about it, Vassell is kind of a hybrid between Okoro and Nesmith. Not as good a defender as Okoro (in my estimation at least), not as good a shooter as Nesmith, but easily the best combo of the two “3 and D” components at this juncture.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I like what I read about Okoro. Seems he could bring a defensive presents that's needed. 

Yes but he’s a 29% shooter from the college 3, that’s awful. People hate on Troy Brown for being a 34% shooter from the NBA 3 point line in his 2nd year and he’s only 21. I think if we take a SF, we need to get a shooter. I’m very concerned about Okoro’s shooting. 

[turtle28]

33 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I like Vassell as well. More of a team defender than an individual lock-down guy like Okoro, but maybe they need that. The shooting is definitely a big plus, though the fact that he hasn’t been a good FT shooter is concerning — when I’m looking for pure shooters who will translate to the NBA as immediate deep threats, I want to see the FT shooting match the 3pt shooting. But he’s got a good stroke, certainly much more reliable than Okoro at this point.

When you think about it, Vassell is kind of a hybrid between Okoro and Nesmith. Not as good a defender as Okoro (in my estimation at least), not as good a shooter as Nesmith, but easily the best combo of the two “3 and D” components at this juncture.

Agreed, honestly, I’d take any of the 3 and hope that player & our coaches can improve whichever areas they need improvement at. They’re all 3 good prospects. Okoro & Vassell are younger than Nesmith but I love that guys shot.

[Skins212689]

8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yes but he’s a 29% shooter from the college 3, that’s awful. People hate on Troy Brown for being a 34% shooter from the NBA 3 point line in his 2nd year and he’s only 21. I think if we take a SF, we need to get a shooter. I’m very concerned about Okoro’s shooting. 

Agreed but I like his defense. Wall, Beal, Okoro, Rui, Bryant starting 5. Brown can continue to come off the bench. 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, Woz said:

Meant trading for DeAndre Jordan, but yes, those trades too.

Speaking of which, those trades set the table for the roster for the next five years. Kind of like how trading for DeAndre Jordan could potentially backfire and set the team back as well.

 

Stock picks, pray Wall regains form, use those picks to surround Beal & Wall, and hope it works. That's realistically the best hope for the Wizards for the next couple of years. Losing the lottery hurts in terms of not getting top tier talent, but its not the worst thing in the world to have lowered expectations.

Oh, well they wouldn’t be trading much for Jordan IMO. Right now Troy Brown Jr looks like a guy w/o a position unless he can somehow becomes a more consistent 3-pt shooter by the time the 2020-2021 season starts in Dec, Jan or Feb. He’s stuck on the bench behind our other guys and if we sign a FA SF like we should. And, trading one of our back of the bench players is not much either. I wouldn’t give up much for DeAndre Jordan.