Broncos QB Battle - Siemian it is

[thebestever6]

56 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

People are losing their minds over this Sloter guy. He played decent against 4th-5th stringers and now people have him being the next big thing. It's absurd. How many of these cases have we seen in history, where a lowly drafted/undrafted QB lights up a preseason, only to fade into obscurity? Hundreds? Thousands?

To play devils advocate how would you feel if Chad Kelly did the same thing?

[BroncoSojia]

1 minute ago, thebestever6 said:

To play devils advocate how would you feel if Chad Kelly did the same thing?

For starters, I don't even think Kyle played that well to garner this much attention. There were times, especially during the last preseason game, where he looked completely overwhelmed. Keep in mind that he played against 3rd-4th-5th stringers after Lynch and Siemian were done. To answer your question, I would be disappointed because I would've expected Kelly to look better. 

[germ-x]

8 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

To play devils advocate how would you feel if Chad Kelly did the same thing?

I know your playing devils advocate, so this isn't directed at you, obviously.

Kelly is 5x the talent and was once thought of as a potential 1st round pick.  Injuries, his personality, and off the field drama knocked him down the board.  

He really was a steal where Denver got him, even if he doesn't amount to anything.    From a talent perspective he wasn't all that far behind Trubisky, Mahomes, and Watson who were top 12 picks.

[thebestever6]

26 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I know your playing devils advocate, so this isn't directed at you, obviously.

Kelly is 5x the talent and was once thought of as a potential 1st round pick.  Injuries, his personality, and off the field drama knocked him down the board.  

He really was a steal where Denver got him, even if he doesn't amount to anything.    From a talent perspective he wasn't all that far behind Trubisky, Mahomes, and Watson who were top 12 picks.

I agree with Steal. But potential 1st round pick is a bit much. If his last name wasn't Kelly. And he had no off the field issues, or injuries I think he's a third round pick at best.

He gets hyped up because who his uncle was.

 

Just like Eli in 04 he was the third qb in that draft. His family tree inflated his stock.

 

Hell Brady Quinn got hyped up just because he has brady in his name. And his college coach was Tom Bradys offensive coordinato.

[jolly red giant]

Kelly is intriguing - it is clear that he has the pedigree and some talent - the big question mark is the maturity and his ability to get his head straight.

I think Lynch will ultimately be a bust because while he might have the potential, I don't think he has the brains to be an NFL QB. If Kelly is anything like his uncle then he has the brains to go with the potential. What Kelly needs is time - time to grow up, to mature, to realise what he can potentially achieve as an NFL QB. Elway needs to give him that time - he should not be rushed - let him sit this year out - let next year be about learning the job and getting ready and let's see if he is up to the job in year three. 

I always think that there is way too much expected of these kids coming out of college - and that is what they are. Most of them have lived in a bubble since they started playing football being very big fish in a very small pond. In the NFL they are swimming with the sharks - the elite of the elite. The more time you can give these kids to develop the better the chance that they can play with the big boys. It is a rare talent that can step in and produce from day one - and these are few and far between even among first round draft picks, never mind at the bottom of the seventh. 

I think it will also be interesting to see what happens with Osweiler - unlike in Houston where he was expected to be the QBOTF, there are absolutely zero expectations here for him. It may be just what he needs - he has $36million sitting in the bank - has has made his money decision - now we will see if he can make some football decisions and become a serviceable QB, even as a back-up. Who knows - maybe he can play in McCoy's scheme and push Siiemian so that both become better players. If it doesn't happen then the Broncos haven't actually lost out on anything.

Last post - I don't think we should have any expectations about next year. We are not going to be able to draft any of the top QBs - we are not going to get any of the top QB FAs and it is unlikely that we could trade for a QB that would be a major upgrade on what is already here. I think we will end up rolling with what is already here for the next couple of seasons - ultimately finding out of Kelly can produce. That is not necessarily a bad thing. There is some serious talent in the Brincos roster - enough to win the SB again if we can get even average play from a QB. For me fixing the OL is by far the more difficult - and ultimately, the more determining issue going forward. Here is hoping Bolles is at least serviceable and that the interior is up to the job - and then let's find a really good RT and some serviceable back-ups to maximise the potential of the talent on the rest of the roster.

[jolly red giant]

24 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I agree with Steal. But potential 1st round pick is a bit much. If his last name wasn't Kelly. And he had no off the field issues, or injuries I think he's a third round pick at best.

The draft is largely a crap shoot - there are very few sure fire things in the draft.. Where he gets graded is one thing - how good he is, well that is something completely different.

[germ-x]

17 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I agree with Steal. But potential 1st round pick is a bit much. If his last name wasn't Kelly. And he had no off the field issues, or injuries I think he's a third round pick at best.

He gets hyped up because who his uncle was.

 

Just like Eli in 04 he was the third qb in that draft. His family tree inflated his stock.

 

Hell Brady Quinn got hyped up just because he has brady in his name. And his college coach was Tom Bradys offensive coordinato.

I think 1st round was a little much as well. His game has flaws, mostly with his up and down accuracy.

I don't think his last name really plays into it.  Chad Kelly is an excellent talent.  He has ELITE arm strength and a quick release.  He's an above average athlete that can evade tacklers and pick up yards. He has very good instincts and from all reports an almost insane competitiveness.

Not including the off the field and personality flaws.  His in game issues are his accuracy and decision making, which we've all seen be the downfall for plenty of physically great QBs.

Really, he's very comparable to Jay Cutler physically coming out of college.

[BroncoSojia]

18 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

Kelly is intriguing - it is clear that he has the pedigree and some talent - the big question mark is the maturity and his ability to get his head straight.

I think Lynch will ultimately be a bust because while he might have the potential, I don't think he has the brains to be an NFL QB. If Kelly is anything like his uncle then he has the brains to go with the potential. What Kelly needs is time - time to grow up, to mature, to realise what he can potentially achieve as an NFL QB. Elway needs to give him that time - he should not be rushed - let him sit this year out - let next year be about learning the job and getting ready and let's see if he is up to the job in year three. 

I always think that there is way too much expected of these kids coming out of college - and that is what they are. Most of them have lived in a bubble since they started playing football being very big fish in a very small pond. In the NFL they are swimming with the sharks - the elite of the elite. The more time you can give these kids to develop the better the chance that they can play with the big boys. It is a rare talent that can step in and produce from day one - and these are few and far between even among first round draft picks, never mind at the bottom of the seventh. 

I think it will also be interesting to see what happens with Osweiler - unlike in Houston where he was expected to be the QBOTF, there are absolutely zero expectations here for him. It may be just what he needs - he has $36million sitting in the bank - has has made his money decision - now we will see if he can make some football decisions and become a serviceable,e QB, even as a back-up. Who knows - maybe he can play in McCoy's scheme and push Siiemian so that both become better players. If it doesn't happen then the Broncos haven't actually lost out on anything.

Last post - I don't think we should have any expectations about next year. We are not going to be able to draft any of the top QBs - we are not going to get any of the top QB FAs and it is unlikely that we could trade for a QB that would be a major upgrade on what is already here. I think we will end up rolling with what is already here for the next couple of seasons - ultimately finding out of Kelly can produce. That is not necessarily a bad thing. There is some serious talent in the Brincos roster - enough to win the SB again if we can get even average play from a QB. For me fixing the OL is by far the more difficult - and ultimately, the more determining issue going forward. Here is hoping Bolles is at least serviceable and that the interior is up to the job - and then let's find a really good RT and some serviceable back-ups to maximise the potential of the talent on the rest of the roster.

Counting on the current crop of QBs for next year would be a disservice to the rest of the roster, specifically the defense. Siemian and Lynch are not going to lead us anywhere. Wasting years trying to polish turds will have us looking like the mid-2000s Baltimore Ravens. Chad Kelly is a wild card of course, but even I (as his biggest groupie) can't completely count on him for next year.

IMO, Elway will be his usual self and aggressively try to upgrade the position next year. Garapolo, Rosen, Allen, Jackson, Darnold, Rudolph, maybe even Falk. We need to look at all options.

[jolly red giant]

1 minute ago, BroncoSojia said:

Counting on the current crop of QBs for next year would be a disservice to the rest of the roster, specifically the defense. Siemian and Lynch are not going go to lead us anywhere. Wasting years trying to polish turds will have us looking like the mid-2000s Baltimore Ravens. Chad Kelly is a wild card of course, but even I (as his biggest groupie) can't completely count on him for next year.

IMO, Elway will be his usual self and try aggressively try to upgrade the position next year. Garapolo, Rosen, Allen, Jackson, Darnold, Rudolph, maybe even Falk. We need to look at all options.

Looking at options is fine - actually making it happen is a different story altogether.

How do you think Elway can make it happen?

[Broncofan]

Unless we think a bottom 10 season is coming we can forget about the top 3 QB in the draft.   And we simply don't have the $ to get a marquee FA.   Now that Brissett is gone I don't think JimmyG is going anywhere.  

If none of our currently rostered guys is the 2018 answer then we might be able to explore the 2nd tier of FA or rookies - but then we run the risk of a reach pick.   We really want one of our 3 guys on the team roster & IR (sorry not even going there with Brock he's a fill-in) to step up.   Otherwise we have to bury most of our cap or a premium pick to invest in QB and we aren't even close enough to a complete team to afford that and feel good about our chances to contend.  

[BroncoSojia]

27 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Unless we think a bottom 10 season is coming we can forget about the top 3 QB in the draft.   And we simply don't have the $ to get a marquee FA.   Now that Brissett is gone I don't think JimmyG is going anywhere.  

If none of our currently rostered guys is the 2018 answer then we might be able to explore the 2nd tier of FA or rookies - but then we run the risk of a reach pick.   We really want one of our 3 guys on the team roster & IR (sorry not even going there with Brock he's a fill-in) to step up.   Otherwise we have to bury most of our cap or a premium pick to invest in QB and we aren't even close enough to a complete team to afford that and feel good about our chances to contend.  

I could see us with a top 10 pick next year TBH..... 

[Broncofan]

29 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

I could see us with a top 10 pick next year TBH..... 

Well then your reasoning is sound on thinking rookie class (top 10 pick) to get there but I don't know that the underlying premise is there.  We are no locks or anything for playoffs but some really really awful awful teams at the bottom 10.   The margin between the team with the 15th pick and last 2-3 teams in playoffs is really small.  Not like bottom 10 vs 15+.  

[BroncoSojia]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Well then your reasoning is sound to get there but I don't know that the underlying premise is there.  We are no locks or anything for playoffs but some really really awful awful teams at the bottom 10.  

I honestly think we're the worst team in our division and we have a pretty hard schedule overall. The injuries to the defense won't help matters either. I don't know if 6-10/7-9 gets us in the top ten but that's where I have us.

[Broncofan]

34 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

I honestly think we're the worst team in our division and we have a pretty hard schedule overall. The injuries to the defense won't help matters either. I don't know if 6-10/7-9 gets us in the top ten but that's where I have us.

The margin between 7-9 and 10-6 is razor thin.   7-9 clearly could put us in the cellar...but it wouldn't get us into the top 10.   A lot of bad teams in the league these days.  The AFCW is the hardest division these days.   

FWIW we will know if the playoffs are legit hope or a lost cause early on - we play 4 of our first 5 games at home and the away game is @BUF.   If we are 4-1 or better great shot.   If we are 3-2 it's iffy.  If we are 2-3 or worse the playoffs look like a pipe dream.    

We face DAL with most of their DL suspended and Elliott still suspended (for now).   We face Chargers x 2 without their top 2 draft picks and their MLB Perryman.   We face BUF who aren't even trying to win.   As much as losing Ray hurts we could start 4-1 given the above.    But if we don't get off to good start then yeah last place in the AFCW is very possible.   But playing BUF & Jets and those early home games really makes a top 10 pick unlikely IMO.   A mirage fast start and 2H fade is my biggest worry TBH that 2H schedule is tough as nails.  Having said that we lose Siemian we are in deep trouble.   No one else on our current roster has a realistic shot to be even league average this year.  

 

     

 

[AnAngryAmerican]

7 hours ago, germ-x said:

I know your playing devils advocate, so this isn't directed at you, obviously.

Kelly is 5x the talent and was once thought of as a potential 1st round pick.  Injuries, his personality, and off the field drama knocked him down the board.  

He really was a steal where Denver got him, even if he doesn't amount to anything.    From a talent perspective he wasn't all that far behind Trubisky, Mahomes, and Watson who were top 12 picks.

Vance said that Kelly was his favorite QB in the draft. Now that could have been post-draft hyperbole from a rookie head coach who, thus far, has proven nothing. Or it could be his honest assessment. There is no questioning Kelly's talent or his pedigree and he was an absolute steal who feel because he's make some knucklehead mistakes. He could prove to never be worth anything but at this point, he is intriguing.