Broncos QB Battle - Siemian it is

[Broncofan]

Just now, BroncoSojia said:

It's not like he didn't have options, (with Kaepernick out there that is sad) which is why we probably rushed to sign him and didn't wait. And it's not like cutting someone on a vet min salary is going to affect our cap.

Here's the rub though - Lynch's throwing shoulder is hurt.  That's no bueno.  There's no lock that Lynch is ready in 3-4 weeks.  That's the minimum time frame.  Honestly, if I'm Elway, I'm keeping a vet QB around all season long - besides the obvious issues with Lynch's lack of progress, there's no guarantee we are going to see him healthy for a while.   Add it all up, if we paid the cost for the whole year, seems like we'll keep him around.  Again, I have zero faith he's anything more than a backup, so take it FWIW.

[BroncoSojia]

18 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

The money was irrelevant - Cleveland are picking up the tab - it would have been daft for any team to pay him more than the vet minimum.

However, I would not be surprised if Osweiler is kept for the season - particularly if he shows any kind of understanding and ability with the offence. Lynch sucks at the moment - he has gone backwards. Osweiler has similar physical traits as Lynch but seems to have more between the ears - while not coming close to Siemian.

As for Elway - given that Osweiler was in college with his son, it wouldn't be surprising if Elway had a little more time for Os than other GMs might. 

Besides - I don't think anyone is 'making too much of a big deal' out of anything. Osweiler is just another QB on the roster and if he proves to be better than what is here already he is likely to be kept around.

Have you been on the Broncos subreddit, twitter, or the other Broncos message boards? Many fans are/were freaking out about a temporary backup and the fact that we didn't keep an UDFA that played decent against 4th and 5th stringers.

 

This is about the only place I can stand to be right now because everywhere else is unbearable.

 

 

edit: OMG my 3000th post!

[thebestever6]

This team screams Broncos teams from 03 to 05 two good wrs, and an emphasis on a strong ground game.

And Siemian is much like plummer not sexy but won't kill you.

[champ11]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Here's the rub though - Lynch's throwing shoulder is hurt.  That's no bueno.  There's no lock that Lynch is ready in 3-4 weeks.  That's the minimum time frame.  Honestly, if I'm Elway, I'm keeping a vet QB around all season long - besides the obvious issues with Lynch's lack of progress, there's no guarantee we are going to see him healthy for a while.   Add it all up, if we paid the cost for the whole year, seems like we'll keep him around.  Again, I have zero faith he's anything more than a backup, so take it FWIW.

They'll probably want to put Lynch on the IR and we're gonna have to watch Brock freakin Osweiler play in some games this year. If we lose games with Elway's failed second round pick that is on the roster bc he "knew the system" I'm gonna go off in here. 

[champ11]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

The money was irrelevant - Cleveland are picking up the tab - it would have been daft for any team to pay him more than the vet minimum.

However, I would not be surprised if Osweiler is kept for the season - particularly if he shows any kind of understanding and ability with the offence. Lynch sucks at the moment - he has gone backwards. Osweiler has similar physical traits as Lynch but seems to have more between the ears - while not coming close to Siemian.

As for Elway - given that Osweiler was in college with his son, it wouldn't be surprising if Elway had a little more time for Os than other GMs might. 

Besides - I don't think anyone is 'making too much of a big deal' out of anything. Osweiler is just another QB on the roster and if he proves to be better than what is here already he is likely to be kept around.

I strongly disagree.

Brock Osweiler has literally zero NFL starting quality traits outside of being tall. He is not a fluid athlete like Lynch. He doesn't have a strong arm like Lynch. He isn't accurate. He doesn't make good reads. Lynch sucks, but can run and has a good arm and release. Brock just sucks. 

Kubiak and Dennison deserve a hell of a lot more credit for winning games with Osweiler than they have been given

[BroncosFan2010]

IDK, Brock made some pretty tremendous throws when he was starting. But his arm is quite overrated. He can throw a rope 20-30 yards but his accuracy is poor and his strong arm is negated when going truly deep because he has no touch. I wont deny that Lynch has better physical traits, but when clean he could really zip a ball to the second level.

[Broncofan]

44 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

IDK, Brock made some pretty tremendous throws when he was starting. But his arm is quite overrated. He can throw a rope 20-30 yards but his accuracy is poor and his strong arm is negated when going truly deep because he has no touch. I wont deny that Lynch has better physical traits, but when clean he could really zip a ball to the second level.

Biggest issues with Brock when he was in DEN:

1.  Not quick in his read progression.  Not knowing the HOU playbook would have made this a lot worse in 2016 but it was there in 2015 too.   

2.  Never learned to look off the safeties  at 6'8 that's a must everyone can see his eyes and get earlier jumps on his throws (or DL get into his throwing lanes).    

3.  Awful pocket awareness.  You have to be able to feel pressure and that Week 17 game vs  SD 2015 and all of 2016 in HOU were eye opening in how weak he is there.

4.  His release isn't quick - not super slow but when you add #1 & #2 with D seeing where he is locked in you see why he had so many TO issues in HOU.  

Now unlike Lynch he knows the O.  And when he scrambled he learned to keep his eyes up.  And unlike PFM he could push the ball downfield and scramble so D had to respect that.  With PFM D's would  jam WR's and blanket the short stuff, and not worry about a QB run or the deep ball.  Why he succeeded in 2015 vs. PFM early and why he is clearly our best backup on the roster right now.  But the weaknesses are why he struggled late in 2015 and HOU-specific  issues aside teams exploited his own weaknesses above.  

Maybe his read progression improves in 2017 as he knows this system but he had 4 years to learn the Den O and was still limited in the above ways.   Entering year 6 as a pro it's just not likely he's anything more than a backup and as @BroncosFan2010 & @champ11 said not even an elite backup.  But as long as it's min wage and this year alone nothing lost. We just need to realize if we need him for significant PT we are likely screwed.   This isn't even close to the 2015 team in terms of balance.  We need Siemian to take a step forward and stay healthy.   Anyone else and we are likely sunk this year.  

 

[anewdawn]

I saw Von on the NFL network last night promoting Old Spice.  They went at him hard about both TJ and Flopweiler.  You could tell Von was uncomfortable but handled the questions well - basically reiterating it's all just a business.  He did seem sincere with his answers and the fact they really like Flop but its Trevor's team.  Everyone knows from last years posts when Flop left us qbless I was quick to fall in favour of Siemian.  Von says Trev is "FIVE TIMES BETTER" than last year and has Peyton like qualities with regard to leadership (Von was drilled on that statement but backed it up).  I liked what Von said overall and I just hope Trev stays healthy.  If he goes down I will naturally pull for his replacement to succeed and at this point I think it would be Flopweiler.    What a world........

[BroncosFan2010]

Sorta OT, but for those wondering why Kap doesn't have a home, this tweet from his GF explains a lot. She sent it while Kap was in the process of negotiating w/ Baltimore's owner, an owner that had been encouraged to sign Kap by Ray Lewis.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725504-colin-kaepernicks-girlfriend-nessa-diab-tweets-django-comparison-at-ray-lewis

Despicable. IDK if this has been discussed, and it shouldn't be per forum rules, but it serves as a outline as to why Kap has not been signed and is a far more disturbing gesture than any of the not-standing crap, which I don't really see as a big deal. But this sort of stuff, naw. No place for that.

[champ11]

Pretty convenient attempt by Ray and the Ravens of course. Was it the girlfriend tweet? Was it crowd sourcing the fans about if they should sign him? Was it the owner praying? Is he worse at football than Ryan Mallett? I'm getting it all mixed up! 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20220205/ray-lewis-advises-colin-kaepernick-keep-activism-private

It's pretty bad if they wouldn't sign him for a tweet that he didn't send if this were true, which seems highly unlikely, in my personal opinion. 

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

It's pretty bad if they wouldn't sign him for a tweet that he didn't send if this were true, which seems highly unlikely, in my personal opinion. 

How would it seem unlikely to you that an owner decides against signing a player when said players GF compares the owners relationship to his players as that of slave driver to house slave? It was a preposterous, offensive tweet and someone who dates a person able to make such outlandish and baseless claims needs to be approached with caution.

I have no issues with players kneeling or standing or doing cartwheels when the anthem is played. But baseless accusations of racism like his GF levied disgust me. Especially when Ray and Bisciotti have had a near father/son relationship over the years. Just horrid.

Quote

Pretty convenient attempt by Ray and the Ravens of course. Was it the girlfriend tweet? Was it crowd sourcing the fans about if they should sign him? Was it the owner praying? Is he worse at football than Ryan Mallett? I'm getting it all mixed up! 

I don't understand any of the above really. Its clear cut that the tweet was from Kaps GF unless you buy some infowars type hack nonsense or something.

[champ11]

The thing that's false is Lewis claiming that is why the Ravens wouldn't sign him. The tweet was offensive. It was sent by his girlfriend. But do 2 minutes of research to see why this is most likely Ray jumping on an opportunity to make the Ravens look justified in not signing Kaep, when in reality they aren't signing him because of the protest.

July 27th, Ravens looking into Kaepernick"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/ravens/2017/07/27/colin-kaepernick-baltimore-ravens-john-harbaugh-signing/516541001/

July 29th: Fans would be upset about signing kaepernick "according to Mike Silver":

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-fans-reportedly-opposed-to-possible-signing-of-colin-kaepernick/

July 30th this is published. The owner needs people to pray for him. He consults Ray Lewis.  

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/31/sport/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-weighs-in-on-colin-kaepernick/index.html

And this article is August first: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20220205/ray-lewis-advises-colin-kaepernick-keep-activism-private

"The football field is our sanctuary," Lewis said. "If you do nothing else, young man, get back on the football field and let your play speak for itself. And what you do off the field, don't let too many people know, because they gonna judge you anyway, no matter what you do, no matter if it's good or bad."

"If people really want to help you, if they really want to help you, man, they'll pray for you, brother," Lewis said. "They'll lead you the right way and stop encouraging you to be caught up in some of this nonsense. The battles you fighting, brother, people way before us have been fighting these for many, many, many years."

Ray pretty much saying shut up and play. Which is actively against the cause. 

And then her tweet was sent on August 2nd. 

So yeah, you look at the timing of everything and for me it is pretty much impossible to believe that it was the tweet that affected the decision to not sign Kaep and that the decision had already been made. 

[BroncosFan2010]

You may be right, but I remain unconvinced. Regardless, a tweet of that nature would rescind my interest in Kap under any circumstances. Even if the tweet was a response to Ray's shut-up-and-play video, its still preposterously, disgustingly unacceptable. There is social activism and there is hatred, and much of what comes from his GF strikes me simply as hate, and the tweet is the ideal example.

Also, for his GF, who is an extension of Kap, to lash against the ONLY team that showed interest is foolish to the N'th degree.

(And why Ray would not just talk to Kap rather than show that for the world to see is just baffling to me but hey, I hate social medial of all forms)

I wont post on this again since its OT at this point. Sorry for derailing.

[champ11]

12 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

You may be right, but I remain unconvinced. Regardless, a tweet of that nature would rescind my interest in Kap under any circumstances. Even if the tweet was a response to Ray's shut-up-and-play video, its still preposterously, disgustingly unacceptable. There is social activism and there is hatred, and much of what comes from his GF strikes me simply as hate, and the tweet is the ideal example.

(And why Ray would not just talk to Kap rather than show that for the world to see is just baffling to me but hey, I hate social medial of all forms)

I wont post on this again since its OT at this point. Sorry for derailing.

I truthfully don't know anything about her and didn't know about the tweet. It's definitely in poor taste. I can't say I respect Ray as a person or his opinion, but it is a super savage tweet. Of course, things are tweeted and said about Kaepernick every day and that is keeping him from having an NFL job.

It's fair to assume the tweet affected the decision based on the article or seeing the tweet even though I feel like the decision had and has been made. I'm honestly exhausted about the Kaep talk on my timeline in general despite being upset that he is being blackballed. The thing that is crazy is I still see comments like "he doesn't want to be a backup" or "he wants 8 mill a year" and all this BS that flagrantly isn't true and there is no support of. And Ray Lewis saying this is just more fuel for the false narratives, IMO. But yeah I think Kaep isn't playing in the NFL because of his protest. Not his play, not the zone read, not bc fill in the blank crap QB is better, not his girlfriend's tweet, not his money demands, just the fact that he is peacefully protesting and trying to create positive change in a culture that needs it. 

But I respect your opinion and thoughts on it and it's always good to discuss this stuff even if we can't really on here!!! 

 

[Broncofan]

FWIW the timing as @champ11 shows makes it seem the Ravens had their mind made up already to pass.  So yeah the Lewis story seems like a convenient plant with hindsight.    But that tweet was also a supremely stupid move it made CK toxic to teams PR-wise.  

I mean if someone's partner did that during a job interview process any prospective employer would rightfully re-examine that candidate.