Winners & Losers from Day One

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm actually kinda surprised more people didn't say the Packers.  Now most of the posters on here are going to pimp their own teams (which I'm doing now), but it's hard not to like what the Packers did.  After all the dust settled, this is how it shook out:

Packers Gave Up: #14, #76, #186
Packers Receive: #18, #147, #248, '19 NO 1st

They essentially moved down four spots in the 1st round and gave up their 3rd round pick to get a 1st round pick next year.

It's the obvious take, so sometimes it goes unsaid.

I mean, you got the #2 and likely the #4 CB with your first 2 picks...and you got a top 32 pick on top of that.   For round 1, it's probably the value #1 result, with TAM & WAS close behind (TAM for value too, WAS for different reasons, just pure luck lol, they turned considering making a horrible reach 1.13 Guice pick into getting the guy they wanted other than Guice, and still getting Guice where he fell to a better range, and a free upgrade from 5th round to early 3rd by realizing they could still trade back further to get him at 2.59).  

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Entirely fair take.   Just that stopping your feet is about the easiest mechanical fix (other than putting 2 hands on ball when running, or having hand position higher pre-throw - those 2 are what Darnold needs to do that are simple ones to reduce fumbling, and Lamar needs to do as well - good call there).    It's when it's the delivery itself that needs change, or the passer is still really inaccurate (Darnold has weird throwing mechanics, but they work accuracy-wise, so no, I don't think he needs to overhaul them), well, good luck.

All of that said - going late Rd1 to get the 5th year, that's the right spot.  He's got to address those areas, and he needs another year to get up to NFL speed for those reads & progressions.  He's not a run-first QB like Young/Vick were, or a RGIII who just thought his skills would make him invicible, and had awful pocket awareness.   Jackson's probably the most uniquely different QB in a while profile-wise because of that (because Watson is much less skilled athletically than Jackson, but his read progression, anticipation are through the roof - both have fantastic pocket awareness - but those first 2 skills are how NFL QB's with average physical talents succeed, and Jackson needs that to leverage his elite physical traits - without them, agree he struggles hard).

Like I mentioned, he's got way too many WTF throws.  He's just not a naturally accurate passer.  And it's not a clear mechanical issue.  There's some mechanical tweaks that should make him a bit more accurate, but he's not ever going to be a highly accurate QB.  If you're in an offense that isn't predicated on that, you're probably willing to put up with that.  But if he's the QB he was at Louisville, he's going to be out of the league quickly.  I put a premium on accuracy and Lamar fails that one miserably at this point.  I don't hate the gamble, because Baltimore probably wasn't going to be in a range to take a QB until after Joe Flacco is gone or he flames out Eli Manning-style.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

It's the obvious take, so sometimes it goes unsaid.

I mean, you got the #2 and likely the #4 CB with your first 2 picks...and you got a top 32 pick on top of that.   For round 1, it's probably the value #1 result, with TAM & WAS close behind (TAM for value too, WAS for different reasons, just pure luck lol, they turned considering making a horrible reach 1.13 Guice pick into getting the guy they wanted other than Guice, and still getting Guice where he fell to a better range, and a free upgrade from 5th round to early 3rd by realizing they could still trade back further to get him at 2.59).  

No doubt.  At the end of the day, it goes back to your evaluations of the players.  Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Vita Vea and probably would have grabbed Derwin James there instead but you can't argue with the value they got.

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Like I mentioned, he's got way too many WTF throws.  He's just not a naturally accurate passer.  And it's not a clear mechanical issue.  There's some mechanical tweaks that should make him a bit more accurate, but he's not ever going to be a highly accurate QB.  If you're in an offense that isn't predicated on that, you're probably willing to put up with that.  But if he's the QB he was at Louisville, he's going to be out of the league quickly.  I put a premium on accuracy and Lamar fails that one miserably at this point.  I don't hate the gamble, because Baltimore probably wasn't going to be in a range to take a QB until after Joe Flacco is gone or he flames out Eli Manning-style.

Ultimately, that will be his epitath if he fails.   I don't like the other generalizations that we've been getting (run-first, spread QB, etc.), though.   But yeah, there's a reason he fell this far, and to a fair range.   I thought ARI might feel compelled to reach for him at 15, and wondered about NE at 31, didn't buy LAC (and said it about 100x, I know).     NE passing on him at 1.31 does give me pause, if they had taken him there I'd be really worried that the league just let BB get 10 more years of Pats elite play.

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Ultimately, that will be his epitath if he fails.   I don't like the other generalizations that we've been getting (run-first, spread QB, etc.), though.   But yeah, there's a reason he fell this far, and to a fair range.   I thought ARI might feel compelled to reach for him at 15, and wondered about NE at 31, didn't buy LAC (and said it about 100x, I know).     NE passing on him at 1.31 does give me pause, if they had taken him there I'd be really worried that the league just let BB get 10 more years of Pats elite play.

I thought there was a chance he could have gone in that 12-16 range, but once Josh Rosen and to a lesser extent Josh Allen started sliding down the board, he wasn't going in that range.  I figured Baltimore would be interested, but they weren't taking him over a defender at 16.  Shrewd move to move back and acquire some more picks.  Personally, I don't like giving up future picks but that's a small price to pay.  If he flames out and Baltimore sucks next year, they might be in range to grab another QB.

For me, it was telling that he wasn't picked until 32.  There were a slew of teams in the 20-32 range that I thought could look at him if he fell.  Baltimore after trading down to 22, New England (at 23 and 31), Pittsburgh at 28, and Jacksonville at 29 were all teams I thought could have taken him.  Clearly, Baltimore valued that 5th year option for him since it was unlikely Cleveland was taking him at 33.

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I thought there was a chance he could have gone in that 12-16 range, but once Josh Rosen and to a lesser extent Josh Allen started sliding down the board, he wasn't going in that range.  I figured Baltimore would be interested, but they weren't taking him over a defender at 16.  Shrewd move to move back and acquire some more picks.  Personally, I don't like giving up future picks but that's a small price to pay.  If he flames out and Baltimore sucks next year, they might be in range to grab another QB.

For me, it was telling that he wasn't picked until 32.  There were a slew of teams in the 20-32 range that I thought could look at him if he fell.  Baltimore after trading down to 22, New England (at 23 and 31), Pittsburgh at 28, and Jacksonville at 29 were all teams I thought could have taken him.  Clearly, Baltimore valued that 5th year option for him since it was unlikely Cleveland was taking him at 33.

The only pick that I saw once ARI had Rosen was New England.   JAX & PIT are in win-now mode - the same reason why I said LAC was never a serious candidate, applied to JAX/PIT.  Bortles isn't great, but JAX restructured to where they really can't walk away until after 2019 now.   So when Bryan fell to them, I see why they pounced.    I do think JAX will spend on a QB next year (worse top-end class, but they aren't necessarily looking for a top-end guy anyways).  

PIT needed D help to keep their window open - I just think they took the wrong guy lol (still wonder if they thought they got the other Edmunds brother lol).  

New England getting Wynn at 1.23, they were the pick I was terrified about.   Them passing on Lamar does give me more pause.  The others, not so much.   Contenders really don't do this, unless they're at luxury pick stage, and PIT really isn't, while JAX is probably closer to that next year.  Them going after Michel, though, that does upgrade my opinion on Michel, conversely.   They never go early with RB like that.  That's a huge sign IMO.

[CWood21]

Just now, Broncofan said:

The only pick that I saw once ARI had Rosen was New England.   JAX & PIT are in win-now mode - the same reason why I said LAC was never a serious candidate, applied to JAX/PIT.  Bortles isn't great, but JAX restructured to where they really can't walk away until after 2019 now.   So when Bryan fell to them, I see why they pounced.    I do think JAX will spend on a QB next year (worse top-end class, but they aren't necessarily looking for a top-end guy anyways).  

PIT needed D help to keep their window open - I just think they took the wrong guy lol (still wonder if they thought they got the other Edmunds brother lol).  

New England getting Wynn, they were the pick I was terrified about.   Them passing on Lamar does give me more pause.  The others, not so much.   Contenders really don't do this, unless they're at luxury pick stage, and PIT really isn't, while JAX is probably closer to that next year.

I wasn't trying to imply that I thought they would, merely that they could.  Big Ben has been waffling on retiring the last year or two, so it made sense to seriously consider it.  When the Jaguars handed Blake Bortles that extension, it definitely decreased the likelihood that the Jaguars would take him but it was a possibility that you couldn't really rule out.  As for the Chargers, I think we've been expecting the Chargers to look for their heir apparent for a couple of years now and they haven't started yet.  He's 36 years old and still playing at a high level.  They're probably 2ish years away before they start looking for their next QB IMO.  But the fact that Pittsburgh took Mason Rudolph in the 2nd round indicates to me that they're serious about finding a future starting QB.  And I'd be willing to bet a decent amount of money there was a serious discussion about Lamar Jackson with their initial pick.

[Bucketheadsdad]

Winner in Round One?

This guy........He's got the best interior lineman in the draft to help keep him ambulatory.  

[RaidersAreOne]

13 minutes ago, Bucketheadsdad said:

Winner in Round One?

This guy........He's got the best interior lineman in the draft to help keep him ambulatory.  

IF he ever comes back. 

[whodatworm23]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:38 PM, SDotNova said:

Winners:

GB: I thought GB getting a first next year while still landing Jaire Alexander are winners. 

Chargers: Getting Derwin James. Jeez. Got to say they are winners as well. 

 

Losers: I don't really see a team that botched the draft.

Steelers: Maybe Terrell Edmunds was a reach. So, maybe the Steelers.

Saints: The Saints trading a 1st to move up for Davenport seems off to me. 

Miami: missing out on Rosen would have left a pit in my stomach if I were a Dolphins fan. 

 

Whats off to me is that fans of other teams and meida heads have been clamoring for the Saints to take a quarterback it seems for years now while Saints fans understand that the biggest detriment the Saints have had for 4 years running was the clubs inability to land a legit bookend to Cam Jordan.

 

Lamar Jackson would have been a nice succesion plan but dont think any Saints fan werent understanding of the Davenport selection. Saints missed out on the lass rusher they wanted in FA and the draft for the last 3 years... They werent gonna miss out again.

[Roninho]

So you spend 2 first round picks on 1 player (non-QB) because 'you don't want to miss out again'? I think it's a terrible trade.

[Tetsujin]

On 4/26/2018 at 11:38 PM, SDotNova said:

 

Miami: missing out on Rosen would have left a pit in my stomach if I were a Dolphins fan. 

 

Haven't heard a Dolphin fan yet complaining about missing out on Rosen. We'll just settle for one of the top defenders in the draft.