2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

[oldman9er]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Hmmm...I like Okereke, so whether or not the 9ers select him, I will know they got a good look at him.

I was very impressed with his final college game. He looked a bit slim/light to me, but if looking at him as a WLB or situational MLB, I am interested. 

[Fureys49ers]

21 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

 

Like Edwards and Jaquan Johnson at S, Lonnie Johnson and Isaiah Johnson both fit the tall, lanky mold our scheme has used in the past and of course there's Thornhill who seems to be a utility guy and well above average at everything. A lot of players to like there.

[757-NINER]

Thornhill will be the talk of all the DBs.....kid can do just about everything at a high level. So glad Woods/Saleh get a chance to see his skillset, up close and personal. 

[49erurtaza]

Darn 

 

[Fureys49ers]

Josh Allen is not listed on any roster for the Senior Bowl. It's thought that he has withdrawn from the event, unsure if it has to do with injury or not. Not that would be a very big missed opportunity for him

[Fureys49ers]

I've mentioned it in another thread, Woods hire, but with all the connections we have to FAs this year in AB, ET, Roby, Ziggy, Barrett and Ray if we added two pass rushers through FA say Ziggy and Barrett, AB and ET would you guys still want to go Allen at 1.2 if Bosa goes 1.1 or would someone like Quinnen Williams or Devin White be on the table for you guys? If we are in fact aiming at adding a lot through FA I'm all for trading down from 1.2, acquiring more picks since we may be dealing our 2nd rounder and adding pieces at LB, CB, OL and wherever else we may feel could use some new blood.

[y2lamanaki]

3 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said:

I've mentioned it in another thread, Woods hire, but with all the connections we have to FAs this year in AB, ET, Roby, Ziggy, Barrett and Ray if we added two pass rushers through FA say Ziggy and Barrett, AB and ET would you guys still want to go Allen at 1.2 if Bosa goes 1.1 or would someone like Quinnen Williams or Devin White be on the table for you guys? If we are in fact aiming at adding a lot through FA I'm all for trading down from 1.2, acquiring more picks since we may be dealing our 2nd rounder and adding pieces at LB, CB, OL and wherever else we may feel could use some new blood.

In this scenario, I want a trade down more than anything, as I would have to assume we've already lost our 2nd in the Antonio Brown trade. Team still needs depth badly, but in this scenario the starting spot needs are well taken care of. So I trade back with one of the QB-needy teams and recoup some picks. At that point, I think Devin White makes a lot of sense. In a draft this deep at EDGE, I would hope we can trade back up into the first to pick up a promising young player at the position. But I can understand if the team would feel comfortable with their free agency (in this scenario with two starters only) to skip edge rusher with the first pick. Even then, I would still take a long look at Clellin Ferrell first.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said:

I've mentioned it in another thread, Woods hire, but with all the connections we have to FAs this year in AB, ET, Roby, Ziggy, Barrett and Ray if we added two pass rushers through FA say Ziggy and Barrett, AB and ET would you guys still want to go Allen at 1.2 if Bosa goes 1.1 or would someone like Quinnen Williams or Devin White be on the table for you guys? If we are in fact aiming at adding a lot through FA I'm all for trading down from 1.2, acquiring more picks since we may be dealing our 2nd rounder and adding pieces at LB, CB, OL and wherever else we may feel could use some new blood.

I really hope we don't go that route from an edge standpoint. Ziggy is a walking injury, Ray has some nominal upside. I've lamented this in the past - I'm tired of trying to nickel and dime this. We need elite players, or potentially elite players, to keep up with teams like the Rams. These guys simply don't do it for me. With Ziggy likely to be short term and not someone that can be counted on, and Ray basically nothing more than a throw at the dartboard, I'm not passing up Allen in favor of them. You can sign both of those guys and have the EDGE still be a complete and total wasteland that torpedoes the season. I won't complain if they take Williams, I would understand that, though I would be worried with how that's all going to fit and work. I'd just have to trust them to figure it out. It's not my favorite move, but again, I totally get it. White at number 2 is really, really steep. I just don't like that for an off ball linebacker. Trade down and pick him? Yeah, I'd do that, but again, I better have a better answer to the EDGE than Ziggy and Ray. 

The thing is, we can be as active as we want in FA, but it's unlikely that we are going to add several big name / big money guys. There are simply too many players out there with tons of cap room. 

[Forge]

Just now, y2lamanaki said:

In this scenario, I want a trade down more than anything, as I would have to assume we've already lost our 2nd in the Antonio Brown trade. Team still needs depth badly, but in this scenario the starting spot needs are well taken care of. So I trade back with one of the QB-needy teams and recoup some picks. At that point, I think Devin White makes a lot of sense. In a draft this deep at EDGE, I would hope we can trade back up into the first to pick up a promising young player at the position. But I can understand if the team would feel comfortable with their free agency (in this scenario with two starters only) to skip edge rusher with the first pick. Even then, I would still take a long look at Clellin Ferrell first.

See, I'm in the opposite boat. I don't much care about the depth. I want top end starting talent. Depth is sort of whatever for me at the current point in time. I don't view our current depth, besides maybe linebacker and corner, as being all that bad. 

[y2lamanaki]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

See, I'm in the opposite boat. I don't much care about the depth. I want top end starting talent. Depth is sort of whatever for me at the current point in time. I don't view our current depth, besides maybe linebacker and corner, as being all that bad. 

In that scenario, two Edge rushers, Antonio Brown, and Earl Thomas have all been added. Top end starting talent is no longer an issue. And, aside from just linebacker and corner, the team still needs depth on the O-Line and tight end, and probably at RB, WR, and S (for health reasons, not talent).

In fact, I'd say outside of interior DL and QB, there's not a position group on the team that is set with good depth. 

[Fureys49ers]

26 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

In that scenario, two Edge rushers, Antonio Brown, and Earl Thomas have all been added. Top end starting talent is no longer an issue. And, aside from just linebacker and corner, the team still needs depth on the O-Line and tight end, and probably at RB, WR, and S (for health reasons, not talent).

In fact, I'd say outside of interior DL and QB, there's not a position group on the team that is set with good depth. 

Similar to my thinking as well. With AB, ET, Ziggy and Barrett added (much rather prefer him to Ray as I think Barrett is going to kill it wherever he goes next) I feel much better about our pass rush and top end talent. With a trade back to 1.6 with the Giants for Haskins or even 1.4 to the Raiders for Josh Allen I think I'd gladly add Devin White there, another top end talent, and secure our LBs for the next few years. With the 2nd or 3rd we gain in the trade back I think I'd target an IOL (C or OG) and another pass rusher say someone like Winovich or D'Andre Walker to take advantage of this very deep pass rushing class. Would still leave us with a 4th, 6th and 6th to add some more depth pieces and that's betting very low on the return value of our trade back in round 1.

[Forge]

41 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

In that scenario, two Edge rushers, Antonio Brown, and Earl Thomas have all been added. Top end starting talent is no longer an issue. And, aside from just linebacker and corner, the team still needs depth on the O-Line and tight end, and probably at RB, WR, and S (for health reasons, not talent).

In fact, I'd say outside of interior DL and QB, there's not a position group on the team that is set with good depth. 

It is from an EDGE standpoint (and multiple other positions). I'm not trusting Ziggy and Ray to give us anything more than what we had this year, and we know what an inconsistent pass rush can do to any team. Granted, with Brown and Jimmy G we are more equipped to win shootouts provided Jimmy is actually a good quarterback (TBD, though if he's not, that blows up this entire team right from the jump and nothing else we do will matter). I still think that top end talent is an issue; when I say that, I'm specifically talking about starters.  

The depth will largely depend on what we do in free agency. Like, assuming we re-sign Mostert, a restricted free agent, I'm not sure how you wouldn't think that a depth chart of Juice, McKinnon, Breida and Mostert isn't solid at running back. We likely aren't going to carry more running backs on the roster, and Mostert is an elite special teams player who averaged over 7 yards a carry last year. Not sure what else we can do there unless we are adding an elite running back that takes over the 1A/1B role ? We aren't going to carry more than those 4 on the roster at any point barring injury, so where are we supposed to hold on to this additional depth? Wide receiver depth doesn't bother me. Bourne / Taylor / Goodwin are solid depth pieces in my opinion. Taylor is a little more on the niche role, but assuming he's fully healed from his back injury that's fine. We need a wr 1 in my opinion. Not a wr 4 to compete. I want a guy that pairs up with Pettis. I have no problem with the depth there, and again, even if you're trying to protect against injuries, where are you keeping these additional bodies?  Tight end I want some competition brought in for Celek, but that dude seems to be very well loved, so I'm not even sure that's something the team will be targeting. I don't know how big the offensive line drop off is between Richburg / Person at center (assuming Person is brought back), or the drop off from Laken / Person to Garnett. Just not really enough data there for me to consider. Garnett looked solid in preseason, then actually played pretty well against Donald and the Rams in the finale. So am I looking to replace him as a back up? Probably not. If anything, I'm just looking to bring in a better starting guard. Don't know how confident i am at the back up tackle roles, so I wouldn't hate competition there, but with Gilliam and Coleman there, not sure how likely that is outside of a UDFA type. 

How many safeties are we going to carry? 4 or 5? Colbert is a good special teams player and a project at FS. If you want to bring in competition for him, I wouldn't argue, but what I want is a starter there...competition with Colbert is secondary. Harris and Tartt likely have the SS role locked up. Harris showed enough last year that he probably doesn't need to be overly concerned about not making the squad. So if I'm looking at anything there, it's going to be to find someone better than Tartt. If we carry 5 safeties, then sure, I'd add another SS because Tartt can't stay healthy. At corner, it's kind of the same thing. I really don't care about having someone come in and compete with Moore for the CB4 role...I want someone that is coming and competing for a starter role against Spoon. 

I'm not really looking for competition among back ups - I'm looking at competition for starting roles to improve on the guys that are actually playing. Too many injuries will crush your season anyway, but I like the depth to a degree that I'm not overly concerned about an injury or two being a major roadblock. Like, am I worried about a drop off between Tartt and Harris when the former inevitably gets hurt? Not really. If McKinnon goes down again, do I worry about our running backs with Breida and Mostert. I don't think so. Sure, you definitely want competition and players brought in for some spots, but others I don't think that there's much drop off between the starter and back up, so if I'm targeting that position, I'm looking at better starters, not comparable back ups. 

So in this scenario, we've added two guys at safety and wide receiver who instantly improve those position grouping. I do not view Ziggy and Ray as an improvement on the edge. Potential improvement? Sure, but that's a pretty big risk. By bringing in starters, we are improving our depth anyway.

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said:

Similar to my thinking as well. With AB, ET, Ziggy and Barrett added (much rather prefer him to Ray as I think Barrett is going to kill it wherever he goes next) I feel much better about our pass rush and top end talent. With a trade back to 1.6 with the Giants for Haskins or even 1.4 to the Raiders for Josh Allen I think I'd gladly add Devin White there, another top end talent, and secure our LBs for the next few years. With the 2nd or 3rd we gain in the trade back I think I'd target an IOL (C or OG) and another pass rusher say someone like Winovich or D'Andre Walker to take advantage of this very deep pass rushing class. Would still leave us with a 4th, 6th and 6th to add some more depth pieces and that's betting very low on the return value of our trade back in round 1.

Where are you thinking of putting Barrett? Surely not on the edge? 

[Fureys49ers]

24 minutes ago, Forge said:

Where are you thinking of putting Barrett? Surely not on the edge? 

SAM on base downs and put his hand in the dirt on passing downs, similar to how I believe yourself and I envision using Allen if we draft him. He's held up very well against the run during his time in Denver so I don't feel he's at all a liability in that regard even with his smaller size. So even if we liked him at LEO on occasion I wouldn't be too concerned. But more than likely Ziggy lines up at LEO with Barrett at SAM on base downs and both their hands in the dirt on sub packages. Whoever is drafted in the 3rd can back up either LEO, SAM or both as well as Marsh for depth, who knows maybe Watson is still on the team and ensures even more depth. In that scenario two guys, Marsh and Watson, who saw entirely too much field time since being with us would be depth and ST at best. Then there's even players such as Blair and Thomas capable of lining up at the end spot on occasion and whatever we may have in Street. Of all those bodies I feel confident we can find a handful to man those two positions and the talent level has been much improved. I understand your concerns of nickel and diming our pass rush problem but when healthy (if he can do that anymore) Ziggy has proven effective, I am of the belief that Barrett is an up and comer and the added 3rd round pick gives us a boost two times over there.

[y2lamanaki]

30 minutes ago, Forge said:

It is from an EDGE standpoint (and multiple other positions). I'm not trusting Ziggy and Ray to give us anything more than what we had this year, and we know what an inconsistent pass rush can do to any team. Granted, with Brown and Jimmy G we are more equipped to win shootouts provided Jimmy is actually a good quarterback (TBD, though if he's not, that blows up this entire team right from the jump and nothing else we do will matter). I still think that top end talent is an issue; when I say that, I'm specifically talking about starters.  

The depth will largely depend on what we do in free agency. Like, assuming we re-sign Mostert, a restricted free agent, I'm not sure how you wouldn't think that a depth chart of Juice, McKinnon, Breida and Mostert isn't solid at running back. We likely aren't going to carry more running backs on the roster, and Mostert is an elite special teams player who averaged over 7 yards a carry last year. Not sure what else we can do there unless we are adding an elite running back that takes over the 1A/1B role ? We aren't going to carry more than those 4 on the roster at any point barring injury, so where are we supposed to hold on to this additional depth? Wide receiver depth doesn't bother me. Bourne / Taylor / Goodwin are solid depth pieces in my opinion. Taylor is a little more on the niche role, but assuming he's fully healed from his back injury that's fine. We need a wr 1 in my opinion. Not a wr 4 to compete. I want a guy that pairs up with Pettis. I have no problem with the depth there, and again, even if you're trying to protect against injuries, where are you keeping these additional bodies?  Tight end I want some competition brought in for Celek, but that dude seems to be very well loved, so I'm not even sure that's something the team will be targeting. I don't know how big the offensive line drop off is between Richburg / Person at center (assuming Person is brought back), or the drop off from Laken / Person to Garnett. Just not really enough data there for me to consider. Garnett looked solid in preseason, then actually played pretty well against Donald and the Rams in the finale. So am I looking to replace him as a back up? Probably not. If anything, I'm just looking to bring in a better starting guard. Don't know how confident i am at the back up tackle roles, so I wouldn't hate competition there, but with Gilliam and Coleman there, not sure how likely that is outside of a UDFA type. 

How many safeties are we going to carry? 4 or 5? Colbert is a good special teams player and a project at FS. If you want to bring in competition for him, I wouldn't argue, but what I want is a starter there...competition with Colbert is secondary. Harris and Tartt likely have the SS role locked up. Harris showed enough last year that he probably doesn't need to be overly concerned about not making the squad. So if I'm looking at anything there, it's going to be to find someone better than Tartt. If we carry 5 safeties, then sure, I'd add another SS because Tartt can't stay healthy. At corner, it's kind of the same thing. I really don't care about having someone come in and compete with Moore for the CB4 role...I want someone that is coming and competing for a starter role against Spoon. 

I'm not really looking for competition among back ups - I'm looking at competition for starting roles to improve on the guys that are actually playing. Too many injuries will crush your season anyway, but I like the depth to a degree that I'm not overly concerned about an injury or two being a major roadblock. Like, am I worried about a drop off between Tartt and Harris when the former inevitably gets hurt? Not really. If McKinnon goes down again, do I worry about our running backs with Breida and Mostert. I don't think so. Sure, you definitely want competition and players brought in for some spots, but others I don't think that there's much drop off between the starter and back up, so if I'm targeting that position, I'm looking at better starters, not comparable back ups. 

So in this scenario, we've added two guys at safety and wide receiver who instantly improve those position grouping. I do not view Ziggy and Ray as an improvement on the edge. Potential improvement? Sure, but that's a pretty big risk. By bringing in starters, we are improving our depth anyway.

Well, I said you still have to look at Ferrell at 6 or 7. And I think you're exiting the scenario a little too much with this hypothetical - if the team signs Ziggy and Ray in free agency, you better believe they see that as an upgrade over what is currently here. If they don't, they aren't going to sign them. The scenario says we have them, so it implies that we feel we have upgraded. Even given that- I still think you consider an EDGE guy in the trade back, but ultimately I would say they go with a new starter (at LB, G, or CB, most likely,  and White seems tops there for me). From there, use some of the picks to trade back up into the first and grab a guy like Sweat. But in this scenario, assuming our 2nd is part of the Antonio Brown trade, you can only do that if you trade down from #2.