El Ramster Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Mack won DPOY. And is a Top 5 defender In game if not top 3. Why are we treating Clowney like he belongs in the conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, El ramster said: Mack won DPOY. And is a Top 5 defender In game if not top 3. Why are we treating Clowney like he belongs in the conversation? Because the conversation isn't about who is the better player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Jakuvious said: Because the conversation isn't about who is the better player? Sounds like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 pages. 1 Top 10 list. This thread is kind of disappointing. I don't know enough about interior D-Lineman around the league to compose my own list TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Danger said: 6 pages. 1 Top 10 list. This thread is kind of disappointing. I don't know enough about interior D-Lineman around the league to compose my own list TBH. Means I win the debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 6:00 PM, Yin-Yang said: Waste of time, honestly. Gifs aren’t representative of much. I can post 4 gifs and make Mack look like a JAG and then post 4 gifs to make Ted Ginn look like a GOAT. Again, this has to do with the consistency. What separates Kam Chancellor from the rest? His ability to absorb contact from blockers, maintain his positioning, beat them, and lay big hits. And do it consistently in those situations. Patrick Chung has done it before, but not nearly enough. That’s what makes Kam great at it. Clowney does that but doesn’t have the benefit of getting a running start the way a DB or off LOS linebacker would. You’re joking if you think a guy’s hitting power has nothing to do with strength. Dude...go read the posts. I said it’s hyperbole to say Mack gets consistently double/triple teamed, let alone beats them consistently. Youre reading and interpretting what you want to at this point. (I’m convinced people overusing “literally” is the source of my blood pressure...) Wrong. Watch the play. Mack takes the RT on solo, the RG doubles the DT with the C, then realizes the RT is beat and puts a hand on Mack’s back shoulder after the RT’s already been shed. Payne doesn’t even touch Mack. I’ll attribute it to bad memory. In fact, here you go: https://youtu.be/6_t-zuQSpuc At 1:17 play it back slow if you need to. Seriously...don’t waste your time. I know he has seen triples teams. He’s even beaten them a few times. Neither of those things happen *consistently*. Hence the hyperbole. You’re the one who said it consistently happens, that’s your narrative. If I posted 4 gifs of Clowney bullying linemen, would that suddenly sway your opinion? So Clowney can’t be stronger because Mack is a better pass rusher? He could be the MVP with 30 sacks/year and not be the strongest guy at his position. I think you’re confusing accolades with strength. So you think Mack, you think “brute force and overpowering offensive linemen”, so I have to as well? 4 The GIF take is the worst one I've heard yet. Why don't you just post 4. Those GIF's of Mack are special. You can't find gifs of the majority of edge players in the league doing that because it just doesn't happen like that for most players. I'm just trying to give a shred of visual evidence instead of backing things up with pure conjecture. Mack's signature trait is his power and how he uses his hands/leverage to augment it even further. Again, bull rushing is more about strength than hitting big is. If you deny that, there's nothing I can say to convince you of anything. Mack is likely the best bull rusher in the NFL and is a monster against the run. He's likely the strongest edge player in the league. If Clowney was stronger than Mack (i.e. functional strength), he would already be a serious DPOY candidate because he would destroy OT's every play and there would be nothing they could do to stop him, but he isn't in that conversation right now. What "strength" are you referring to? In which context? I don't understand what you're getting at. The functional applications of strength (i.e. run defending/rushing) are what I classify it as. Clowney has a better getoff than Mack, especially against the run, which is how I've seen him make a lot of his dough since college by just swimming his way past offensive lineman and making them look silly. But overpowering them the way Mack does on a consistent basis? Not seeing it so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 So for like the 3rd time, you’re going to ignore your bad take on the Panthers sack that you went out of the way to make? Always a good strategy - just don’t respond to something you don’t like. 9 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: The GIF take is the worst one I've heard yet. Why don't you just post 4. Those GIF's of Mack are special. You can't find gifs of the majority of edge players in the league doing that because it just doesn't happen like that for most players. I'm just trying to give a shred of visual evidence instead of backing things up with pure conjecture. Mack's signature trait is his power and how he uses his hands/leverage to augment it even further. Yeah, no. It’s a bad idea. Jak stated it even clearer above. I can find gifs of most decent edge rushers bull rushing an offensive linemen off their feet. Mack will be better than most of them as a player, stronger too, but gifs aren’t the way to go about it. Quote Again, bull rushing is more about strength than hitting big is. If you deny that, there's nothing I can say to convince you of anything. Good thing that was never said. You’re just trying to take collision completely out of the equation because...well, that’s not really Mack’s forte. Quote Mack is likely the best bull rusher in the NFL and is a monster against the run. He's likely the strongest edge player in the league. If Clowney was stronger than Mack (i.e. functional strength), he would already be a serious DPOY candidate because he would destroy OT's every play and there would be nothing they could do to stop him, but he isn't in that conversation right now. What a laughable bad take. So Clowney can’t be the stronger player, because then he’d be a DPOY candidate every year? And because he isn’t, then he isn’t stronger. That’s hilarious. I’ve said how many times now that Mack is the better player overall and better pass rusher? A bull rush isn’t just strength. It’s about leverage too, good luck bull rushing if the linemen is anchored and has a lower pad level. And speed, good luck bull rushing if the OL gets into their stance and puts their hands on you first. If strength was the literal only aspect about bull rushing, then nose tackles would be unstoppable in the pass rush department. Quote What "strength" are you referring to? In which context? I don't understand what you're getting at. The functional applications of strength (i.e. run defending/rushing) are what I classify it as. Clowney has a better getoff than Mack, especially against the run, which is how I've seen him make a lot of his dough since college by just swimming his way past offensive lineman and making them look silly. But overpowering them the way Mack does on a consistent basis? Not seeing it so much. Run defending/pass rushing aren’t strength feats. Player A can have 20 sacks and be a better run defender, but be weaker than Player B with 10 sacks who struggles against the run. Both require technique within a system and knowledge on the field (example, overpursuing in the run game, rushing up field instead of setting the edge, etc). If you don’t see Clowney ragdolling people often enough, then the simple solution is you haven’t watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Missed 2 games and all of camp. Donald da Gawd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 5/29/2018 at 10:00 AM, TheVillain112 said: 1.) Aaron Donald 2.) JJ Watt 3.) Geno Atkins 4.) Fletcher Cox 5.) Gerald McCoy 6.) Ndamukong Suh 7.) Cameron Heyward 8.) Damon Harrison 9.) Grady Jarrett 10.) Mike Daniels H/M: Jurrell Casey Leonard Williams, Brandon Williams, and DeForest Buckner are going to be hard to keep off this list... @sp6488 This is why I said Brandon Williams is the most underrated on our team. Brandon Williams ain't even on the list? Under guys like Suh, Heyward, Harrison, Jarrett and Daniels? And this is coming from a freaking Bengals fan who watches him 2x a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Darth Pees said: @sp6488 This is why I said Brandon Williams is the most underrated on our team. Brandon Williams ain't even on the list? Under guys like Suh, Heyward, Harrison, Jarrett and Daniels? And this is coming from a freaking Bengals fan who watches him 2x a year. He would have been top 5 two years ago on my list. For whatever reason when I watched him this past season he wasn't as dominant. Maybe I just watched the wrong games or he was hurt, but I'm sticking to my story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 4:29 PM, TheVillain112 said: He would have been top 5 two years ago on my list. For whatever reason when I watched him this past season he wasn't as dominant. Maybe I just watched the wrong games or he was hurt, but I'm sticking to my story... Funny thing (with respect to your phrasing), he was hurt this season and the Ravens run defense looked terrible in his absence. He missed games #3 - 6. In those 4 contests, the Ravens saw 156 rushing attempts for 678 yards and 4 TD (4.35 YPC). Ravens 2017 games 3 - 6 In the other 12 games, the Ravens yielded a 3.95 YPC* and 8 total rushing TD. Ravens 2017 games 1 - 2 Ravens 2017 games 7 - 16 For some perspective, their poor stretch would equate to the bottom third of the league for a full season (specifically, the break between 4.3 and 4.4 ypc is at #26 and #27 in this measure). Conversely, the better stretch would equate to the top third of the league for a full season (specifically, the break between 3.9 and 4.0 ypc is at #9 and #10 in this measure). Obviously there are other factors to consider, but a very quick and dirty analysis says the team was top-10 against the run with him in the lineup and bottom-10 with him out. Note, that YPC (rather than total yards) is the measure I prefer for ranking run defenses. * Interestingly, this number was exactly the same for games 1 - 2 and games 8 - 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 11:29 AM, Darth Pees said: @sp6488 This is why I said Brandon Williams is the most underrated on our team. Brandon Williams ain't even on the list? Under guys like Suh, Heyward, Harrison, Jarrett and Daniels? And this is coming from a freaking Bengals fan who watches him 2x a year. Very fair point. He's still being mentioned in the post, though, but I certainly see your POV on this. I would agree that he's certainly underappreciated or underrated, but I will maintain that Humphrey was a strong pick for the referenced thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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