Iamcanadian Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Forge said: It's actually worse than that in my opinion. I can understand if Shanny just absolutely loved Cousins and wanted to draft him even with RG3. But it wasn't just about Cousins - the talk was that they were going to take Russell Wilson with their pick in the 4th round before Seattle took him in the third, which resulted in Washington taking Cousins instead. So they were taking a quarterback regardless there - even though they had just given up all that capital to take RG3. That should say more than enough about how the Shanahans felt about Rg3 overall. Scot McGloughan also talks about it on his interview with Adam Schefter on his podcast. I believe that he was with Seattle at the time Again, it just shows how impressive Shanny is at judging QB's. Either way he was a winner. His father was an extremely solid drafter and assessor of talent, guess his son learned well. I do not believe for a minute that without Shanny's insistence, they draft another QB after giving up tons of picks for RG3. It made no sense at the time, but I didn't know that much about Shanny back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Ro 25 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 16 hours ago, Forge said: That's extremely debatable. we don't know what he would have done long term. Like Kaepernick, he could have been exposed by defenses and unable to adjust. There were reports that he was struggling to read defenses and get rid of the ball out of Cleveland last year. That part of his game shouldn't be hampered by the injury. That also wouldn't bode well for trying to adjust to defenses that schemed against his college style offense. That fallacy is fallacious though, because your premise is based upon dependent variables that affected his career. Most people believe that RG's issue became confidence and mental related post injuries. All you can say is how great of a player he was pre-injury. I'm not even an RG3 guy and don't even think he's comparable to Jackson. Jackson has a lot more confidence making chunk play throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, K-Ro 25 said: That fallacy is fallacious though, because your premise is based upon dependent variables that affected his career. Most people believe that RG's issue became confidence and mental related post injuries. All you can say is how great of a player he was pre-injury. I'm not even an RG3 guy and don't even think he's comparable to Jackson. Jackson has a lot more confidence making chunk play throws. I feel reasonably comfortable saying that if he couldn't read a defense last year it had little to do with a knee injury. He could just never read a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Ro 25 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 11/27/2017 at 1:35 PM, Forge said: I feel reasonably comfortable saying that if he couldn't read a defense last year it had little to do with a knee injury. He could just never read a defense. Yet he somehow had a 20/5 TD:INT ratio with a 102.4 QB Rating.. Even if his style was check the primary read or run, it had tremendous success due to his legs. If he doesn't get injured and lose his confidence, it's difficult to assume the outcomes would be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 47 minutes ago, K-Ro 25 said: Yet he somehow had a 20/5 TD:INT ratio with a 102.4 QB Rating.. Even if his style was check the primary read or run, it had tremendous success due to his legs. If he doesn't get injured and lose his confidence, it's difficult to assume the outcomes would be the same. I've seen every single Griffin NFL pass and his issue wasn't the injury or confidence. The scheme his rookie year elevated him. When he returned year two, he demanded they open up the offense and incorporate more pocket passes. When that happened he promptly struggled to read defenses, throw accurately and show any pocket presence. He was near 100% health by the middle if his 2nd year...but his play was trending down so quickly, Shanny sat him to help him save face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: I've seen every single Griffin NFL pass and his issue wasn't the injury or confidence. The scheme his rookie year elevated him. When he returned year two, he demanded they open up the offense and incorporate more pocket passes. When that happened he promptly struggled to read defenses, throw accurately and show any pocket presence. He was near 100% health by the middle if his 2nd year...but his play was trending down so quickly, Shanny sat him to help him save face. This in my opinion was his biggest downfall as a QB (and injuries). I honestly think he was an accurate QB when he set his feet properly. However, all to often he wouldn't sense pressure until it was far to late and would take unnecessary sacks, or throw a ball when he wasn't properly set due to not feeling the oncoming pressure and misfiring because of it. I am surprised nobody has taken a flyer on him. I mean he is the only QB to lead the Browns to a win in like the last 30 games, and almost led them to back to back wins to end the 2016 season. Towards the end of the season last year (last few games) I thought he was starting look a lot better for the Browns than he did his first game/first game back from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 16 minutes ago, tyler735 said: This in my opinion was his biggest downfall as a QB (and injuries). I honestly think he was an accurate QB when he set his feet properly. However, all to often he wouldn't sense pressure until it was far to late and would take unnecessary sacks, or throw a ball when he wasn't properly set due to not feeling the oncoming pressure and misfiring because of it. I am surprised nobody has taken a flyer on him. I mean he is the only QB to lead the Browns to a win in like the last 30 games, and almost led them to back to back wins to end the 2016 season. Towards the end of the season last year (last few games) I thought he was starting look a lot better for the Browns than he did his first game/first game back from injury. He had the same awful pocket presence at Baylor. I'm not surprised. He never should have been signed by the Browns, especially with McCown on the roster...and he didn't look like a good QB at any point imho. He wasn't really wanted by the league before Hue & Sashi so he definitely not getting any looks afterward . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Ro 25 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 40 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: I've seen every single Griffin NFL pass and his issue wasn't the injury or confidence. The scheme his rookie year elevated him. When he returned year two, he demanded they open up the offense and incorporate more pocket passes. When that happened he promptly struggled to read defenses, throw accurately and show any pocket presence. He was near 100% health by the middle if his 2nd year...but his play was trending down so quickly, Shanny sat him to help him save face. I'm not pro-RG3 so I don't want to continue this debate. If the system stood as his, my original premise, it's difficult to say that he's suddenly struggle. They messed up trying to make him a pocket QB. He had success in 1 read offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, BrownLeader said: He had the same awful pocket presence at Baylor. I'm not surprised. He never should have been signed by the Browns, especially with McCown on the roster...and he didn't look like a good QB at any point imho. He wasn't really wanted by the league before Hue & Sashi so he definitely not getting any looks afterward . Meh, the last 3 games he was solid to good for the Browns considering that lack of surrounding talent and posting QB rating's in the 80's and 90's those games on top of making plays with his legs. As I mentioned before he helped put the Browns in a position to win the last 2 games of the season. Given that he can't stay healthy, and the media attention he draws, I think that has more to do with why he isn't signed than his actual play on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Alright, let's try and roll off the RG3 discussion and get back to the 2018 quarterback class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I feel that comparisons of Lamar Jackson and RG3 aren't justified outside of them both being very athletic guys with excellent arm strength. As mentioned earlier, RG3 had poor pocket presence. I feel that at this stage, Lamar Jackson has already shown to be better in that regard as he seems to be able to feel the pass rush and either use his athleticism to make a play with his legs or make a play downfield with his arm. I also feel that Jackson has made a wider variety of throws compared to RG3. Baylor had a very limited route tree. RG3 seemed to be a very linear athlete given his track background, he had excellent straight line speed, but a guy like Jackson who may not have the top end speed of RG3, certainly has some of the best lateral movement of any QB I've seen since Vick. Ultimately I think that Lamar Jackson is going to be a top 5 pick by the time the draft is here. I think a team will be willing to take a chance on him as his potential ceiling is through the roof. If I had to rank QB's for this class right now I'd rank them: 1. Lamar Jackson 2. Baker Mayfield 3. Sam Darnold 4. Josh Rosen 5. Josh Allen It's still fairly early in the draft process and I think that 3-5 could certainly change order in my rankings, but for now that's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Griffin was a linear track athlete. As athletic as he was he wasn't great at buying time in the pocket. I think Jackson's got much better running ability, pocket presence and a stronger arm...but he's not as accurate as Griffin was at Baylor. Arm talent is there but his footwork is unfinished...he goes thru the motions but the ball placement is very erratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 On 11/29/2017 at 11:43 AM, tyler735 said: If I had to rank QB's for this class right now I'd rank them: 1. Lamar Jackson 2. Baker Mayfield 3. Sam Darnold 4. Josh Rosen 5. Josh Allen It's still fairly early in the draft process and I think that 3-5 could certainly change order in my rankings, but for now that's how I see it. Too bad, those rankings won't be craved in stone. Otherwise, it would be AWESOME news for Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Lauletta is going to get drafted, and higher than anyone would expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I saw a QB name come up early in the year but heard nothing since. I watched a game of his and was impressed. Silvers. Is he legit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.