2018 Draft Eligible CB Thread

[BleedTheClock]

5 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

MJ Stewart just weighed in at 5'10" 5/8th's and 198 lbs @BleedTheClock

Good look.

[CalhounLambeau]

@BleedTheClock

[One Punch Man]

On 1/21/2018 at 5:31 PM, CaliforniaKid7 said:

Anyone have thoughts on JC Jackson? The off the field concerns are for sure there but so is the talent and athleticism. 

He’s one of those guys that could go anywhere in the draft. Look around at draft websites —some won’t have him ranked, some in the mid rounds cause of those off-the-field concerns, some say he could go as high as the 2nd. Polarizing prospect.

If he stays clean, he strikes as a middle-man’s Marcus Peters. Great, great value in the middle rounds. I’d love for the Seahawks to pick him in the 4th.

[VanS]

This CB class lacks a surefire star at the top.  I'm having a hard time identifying the top corner.  Definitely a weaker class than last year.

 

[reamer]

6 hours ago, VanS said:

This CB class lacks a surefire star at the top.  I'm having a hard time identifying the top corner.  Definitely a weaker class than last year.

 

Josh Jackson has elite ball skills. 8 picks and 19 pass breakup for 27 total defenses is pretty incredible. Good size, too. He may not be top tier in straight line speed testing, but he's still very gifted athletically.

Denzel Ward is Lattimore minus a couple inches. Extremely explosive.

 

Carlton Davis might be my favorite. Great press corner who will hit and tackle. Love his aggression and physicality.

[BleedTheClock]

6 hours ago, VanS said:

This CB class lacks a surefire star at the top.  I'm having a hard time identifying the top corner.  Definitely a weaker class than last year.

 

What's wrong with Denzel Ward? He's not perfect, but he's got oodles of speed, oodles of quickness, great man technique, great experience playing press and off....there's not much in his game that bothers me other than his lack of being 6'0...but that never hurt him in college and I don't expect it to hurt him in the NFL. He's one of the stickiest cover guys you'll find. I am not so sure he's going to rip off a block and kill the runningback at the LOS, but he's certainly not a terrible run defender. There's no reason why he can't go in the top 10.

Josh Jackson is another pretty damn good player that could go in the top 10 to a zone team. He's got a lot of deficiencies with his technique and will likely lack great explosion numbers, but he's big, physical, and just makes plays all over the place. He baits the QB into throwing the ball into perceived windows that he closes on quickly for INT's. He's excellent at creating turnovers and closing distance with his size and short area burst. I question whether or not he'll be able to defend real deep speed though and I don't think his technique is good enough right now to be a full-time press man corner. He's going to have to work at those things, but a team that employs a lot of zone coverage and wants someone that can create turnovers is going to love him.

But yes, it's a weaker class than last year, which was ungodly deep. I like the corner class though overall. There's a lot a depth. There is no Jalen Ramsey or Patrick Peterson in the class, but Ward is a sure-fire #1 to me and Josh Jackson can be a #1 in a scheme that fits his strengths and compensates for his weaknesses.

[BleedTheClock]

15 minutes ago, reamer said:

 

Denzel Ward is Lattimore minus a couple inches. Extremely explosive.

Yup.

[jrry32]

I really like Mike Hughes for press-man teams (such as my Rams). He has outstanding feet and hips and a patient approach near the LOS. He's also unafraid of playing physically in the running game (although, his tackling form needs work). He reminds me a lot of Jason Verrett when pressing. He's not as polished as Verrett was in off-man and zone coverage, though. 

[VanS]

1 hour ago, reamer said:

Josh Jackson has elite ball skills. 8 picks and 19 pass breakup for 27 total defenses is pretty incredible. Good size, too. He may not be top tier in straight line speed testing, but he's still very gifted athletically.

Denzel Ward is Lattimore minus a couple inches. Extremely explosive.

 

Carlton Davis might be my favorite. Great press corner who will hit and tackle. Love his aggression and physicality.

1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

What's wrong with Denzel Ward? He's not perfect, but he's got oodles of speed, oodles of quickness, great man technique, great experience playing press and off....there's not much in his game that bothers me other than his lack of being 6'0...but that never hurt him in college and I don't expect it to hurt him in the NFL. He's one of the stickiest cover guys you'll find. I am not so sure he's going to rip off a block and kill the runningback at the LOS, but he's certainly not a terrible run defender. There's no reason why he can't go in the top 10.

Josh Jackson is another pretty damn good player that could go in the top 10 to a zone team. He's got a lot of deficiencies with his technique and will likely lack great explosion numbers, but he's big, physical, and just makes plays all over the place. He baits the QB into throwing the ball into perceived windows that he closes on quickly for INT's. He's excellent at creating turnovers and closing distance with his size and short area burst. I question whether or not he'll be able to defend real deep speed though and I don't think his technique is good enough right now to be a full-time press man corner. He's going to have to work at those things, but a team that employs a lot of zone coverage and wants someone that can create turnovers is going to love him.

But yes, it's a weaker class than last year, which was ungodly deep. I like the corner class though overall. There's a lot a depth. There is no Jalen Ramsey or Patrick Peterson in the class, but Ward is a sure-fire #1 to me and Josh Jackson can be a #1 in a scheme that fits his strengths and compensates for his weaknesses.

1. I gotta see what Josh Jackson measures out to and runs.  That was only 1 year of production.  I never go for one year of INT production when it comes to a CB.

2. Denzel Ward is not as thick or big as Lattimore.  I saw him get abused week 1 by the big WRs of Indiana.  Bigger more physical receivers will have their way with him.  Plus he's a very grabby corner.  I don't like that with a DB.  He'll get called for a lot of penalties in the NFL.

3. I like Carlton Davis as well.  But I wanna see more from him when it comes to hip fluidity.  He reminds me a lot of Cary Williams.  Solid player but nothing special.

[ClutchDJ]

35 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I really like Mike Hughes for press-man teams (such as my Rams). He has outstanding feet and hips and a patient approach near the LOS. He's also unafraid of playing physically in the running game (although, his tackling form needs work). He reminds me a lot of Jason Verrett when pressing. He's not as polished as Verrett was in off-man and zone coverage, though. 

Would you compare Jaire Alexander to Varrett coming out? 

[Da_Ducktator]

18 minutes ago, VanS said:

2. Denzel Ward is not as thick or big as Lattimore.  I saw him get abused week 1 by the big WRs of Indiana.  Bigger more physical receivers will have their way with him.  Plus he's a very grabby corner.  I don't like that with a DB.  He'll get called for a lot of penalties in the NFL.

Abused? Might want to not just box score scout Simmie Cobbs stats and realize Ward rarely faced him that game. Here's an article with a GIF of every time Ward was targeted: http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/09/what_happened_the_18_times_ind.html

Cobbs had the single catch on Ward, a TD in a 1-on-1 that Ward had actually won the rep before. 6 catches, 58 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 DPI. 

Was it a perfect game from Ward? No. But, when you're targeted 18 times and hold opposing receivers to under 10 YPC, I wouldn't call that even close to being abused. 

[BleedTheClock]

4 minutes ago, ClutchDJ said:

Would you compare Jaire Alexander to Varrett coming out? 

I'm going to interject and say no. Alexander plays a ton of off zone coverage and rarely pressed at Louisville. They're similar athletically in terms of size and speed, but Verrett had much better technique in man coverage. And I think Verrett was a more willing tackler with better overall instincts. Alexander reminds me more of a slightly less athletic Adoree Jackson than he does of Verrett.

[MSURacerDT55]

39 minutes ago, Da_Ducktator said:

Abused? Might want to not just box score scout Simmie Cobbs stats and realize Ward rarely faced him that game. Here's an article with a GIF of every time Ward was targeted: http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/09/what_happened_the_18_times_ind.html

Cobbs had the single catch on Ward, a TD in a 1-on-1 that Ward had actually won the rep before. 6 catches, 58 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 DPI. 

Was it a perfect game from Ward? No. But, when you're targeted 18 times and hold opposing receivers to under 10 YPC, I wouldn't call that even close to being abused. 

That's exactly what he did was box score scout, he told on himself. I can tell he spent zero time watching extensive film on him, its borderline disrespectful adding terms like "grabby" which aren't even true, his technique is as clean as a there is.That was such a weak argument, he would have been better off not commenting.

 

What about when he guarded Noah Fant who is 6-5 240 and locked him down as well as Fumagalli who is 6-6 250 and locked both down when he was covering them or games where the guys he covered did get a single catch or 2 or less

[VanS]

40 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

That's exactly what he did was box score scout, he told on himself. I can tell he spent zero time watching extensive film on him, its borderline disrespectful adding terms like "grabby" which aren't even true, his technique is as clean as a there is.That was such a weak argument, he would have been better off not commenting.

 

What about when he guarded Noah Fant who is 6-5 240 and locked him down as well as Fumagalli who is 6-6 250 and locked both down when he was covering them or games where the guys he covered did get a single catch or 2 or less

 

1 hour ago, Da_Ducktator said:

Abused? Might want to not just box score scout Simmie Cobbs stats and realize Ward rarely faced him that game. Here's an article with a GIF of every time Ward was targeted: http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/09/what_happened_the_18_times_ind.html

Cobbs had the single catch on Ward, a TD in a 1-on-1 that Ward had actually won the rep before. 6 catches, 58 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 DPI. 

Was it a perfect game from Ward? No. But, when you're targeted 18 times and hold opposing receivers to under 10 YPC, I wouldn't call that even close to being abused. 

Actually I watched that ENTIRE game.  It was the first game of the college football season and on national TV.  Plus Ohio State struggled mightily that game which made it a good watch throughout.  I actually never looked at the box score to that game.  My negative impression of Denzel Ward comes purely from watching the game.  He didn't stand out.  And on those plays he was victimized, it looks really easy for the Indiana receivers. 

Plus when I've looked at more of his tape I see an CB who is slight of build and gets very grabby.  College is a lot more liberal when it comes to contact down the field than the NFL.   If Ward continues playing the same style in the pros, he's gonna get called for a ton of penalties. 

Great players jump out immediately.  Ward might be a good player in the NFL.  But he didn't jump off my screen as a great player.

 

[MSURacerDT55]

51 minutes ago, VanS said:

.   If Ward continues playing the same style in the pros, he's gonna get called for a ton of penalties

That same style got Marshon Lattimore DROY, next.....

 

51 minutes ago, VanS said:

Great players jump out immediately.  Ward might be a good player in the NFL.  But he didn't jump off my screen as a great player.

 

Like he did in the first drive of the B1G championship game? Further proof you only half watched one game, no need to reply, this convo is pointless.