Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: It’s fine if you fellow Tribe fans are good with trading Mejia, but he’s an elite catching prospect. I mean, you guys do realize that Buster Posey was a freaking shortstop at Florida State, right? I’m not good with it. I’d rather keep him. I do feel it was necessary. I want a shot at a title not watch a youngin MAYBE make it to the bigs. I’ve seen this game for many years. Remember we turned down Pedro for Wright? Wright was supposed to be this can’t miss prospect that was supposed to be a long term stud just like Mejia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, mse326 said: No you didn't. Hand was not the only reliever available. And there are maybe 3 or 4 relievers in the league actually worth a top 5 prospect. Hand isn't one of them. Meh I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Meh I disagree. That isn't something you can disagree on. They are facts not opinions. Look at what even the best relievers ever traded go for. It isn't top 5 overall prospects. And you definitely can't dispute that other relievers are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, mse326 said: That isn't something you can disagree on. They are facts not opinions. Look at what even the best relievers ever traded go for. It isn't top 5 overall prospects. And you definitely can't dispute that other relievers are available. To back it up a little bit, the entire "well I've seen guys bust before" isn't analysis at all, it's hopes and dreams. There have been prospects the Indians could have traded, but they also got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon. It goes both ways and we have a huge sample size, which is why we have market prices on this. And even though reliever prices have gone up, they haven't gone up this high. Full disclosure, I hope the Indians win this trade. AJ Preller is a **** head (sup @NewAge) and as much as I like Dave Cameron, small market team going for it means that yeah I hope Hand is great and the Indians get full value. But they paid the sticker price and then some. And that is not really up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: I’m not good with it. I’d rather keep him. I do feel it was necessary. I want a shot at a title not watch a youngin MAYBE make it to the bigs. I’ve seen this game for many years. Remember we turned down Pedro for Wright? Wright was supposed to be this can’t miss prospect that was supposed to be a long term stud just like Mejia. Yeah, I get it. Prospects are a crapshoot. See CC for LaPorta. Also sometimes elite prospects are so for a reason. See Barry Bonds, Griffey, etc. Hopefully we didn’t just trade Buster Posey for a pretty good reliever and another solid rookie reliever. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Yeah, I get it. Prospects are a crapshoot. See CC for LaPorta. Also sometimes elite prospects are so for a reason. See Barry Bonds, Griffey, etc. Hopefully we didn’t just trade Buster Posey for a pretty good reliever and another solid rookie reliever. JMHO Oh lord please don’t bring up CC for LaPorta! That one was painful. Yeah I here you I hope we didn’t either. But now we have a lot better of a shot to compete with the Yankees and Bahstahn. Without a bull pen we had no shot. It was a steep price but in my mind worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, mse326 said: That isn't something you can disagree on. They are facts not opinions. Look at what even the best relievers ever traded go for. It isn't top 5 overall prospects. And you definitely can't dispute that other relievers are available. That’s fine but the only fact I’m interested in right now is we are a whole lot better than we were yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Oh lord please don’t bring up CC for LaPorta! That one was painful. That trade showed me there’s no such thing as a can’t miss hitting prospect. 2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Yeah I here you I hope we didn’t either. But now we have a lot better of a shot to compete with the Yankees and Bahstahn. Without a bull pen we had no shot. It was a steep price but in my mind worth it. No doubt about it they HAD to get relievers. It’s just hard to give up a unicorn two way catching prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: That’s fine but the only fact I’m interested in right now is we are a whole lot better than we were yesterday. The major league team is, the organization isn't. IF you are going with this thought process you can't complain about offense from the catcher position for the next decade+ because YOU decided that wasn't important. And I doubt you actually think that is the only fact that matters to you. If they traded Mejia for just a good 7th inning guy that would improve you major league team, would you be good with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, mse326 said: The major league team is, the organization isn't. IF you are going with this thought process you can't complain about offense from the catcher position for the next decade+ because YOU decided that wasn't important. And I doubt you actually think that is the only fact that matters to you. If they traded Mejia for just a good 7th inning guy that would improve you major league team, would you be good with that? Our organization is pretty danged deep. Who’s to say we can’t develop another catcher in the meantime? We have an even better (minimum) window to contend RIGHT NOW. Bull pen was our biggest weakness and we just shored it up. Mejia might turn out to be nothing. Or holy heck the Padres may decide to do what we felt was best, turn him into an outfielder. Who knows I can’t predict the future. As to your second point I am absolutely happy we improved the team. We didn’t trade for a 7th inning guy. We traded for a guy that will more than likely be our closer starting next year and 2 years after. AND we got a 7th inning guy to boot. Again it was a steep price but if we start winning games we didn’t because of the bull pen I’ll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Our organization is pretty danged deep. Who’s to say we can’t develop another catcher in the meantime? We have an even better (minimum) window to contend RIGHT NOW. Bull pen was our biggest weakness and we just shored it up. Mejia might turn out to be nothing. Or holy heck the Padres may decide to do what we felt was best, turn him into an outfielder. Who knows I can’t predict the future. Your knowledge of economics and asset value is clearly zero if you think this means something. 2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: As to your second point I am absolutely happy we improved the team. We didn’t trade for a 7th inning guy. We traded for a guy that will more than likely be our closer starting next year and 2 years after. AND we got a 7th inning guy to boot. My point was simply improving the major league team surely can't be the ONLY fact that matters. If it is then you'd be ok with the good 7th inning guy. If you aren't then you care about the prospects too and your evaluation here is poor. 4 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Again it was a steep price but if we start winning games we didn’t because of the bull pen I’ll take it. It wasn't steep, it was way too high. And that is how bad teams remain bad or become bad earlier and for longer. If you'll take that you haven't paid attention to the MLB at all. Bad teams use this excuse and then when they stay bad they say well we tried. Again you are pretending that Hand is the only reliever available and/or you can only get a reliever by trading Mejia. Neither of those are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Our organization is pretty danged deep. Who’s to say we can’t develop another catcher in the meantime? We have an even better (minimum) window to contend RIGHT NOW. Bull pen was our biggest weakness and we just shored it up. Mejia might turn out to be nothing. Or holy heck the Padres may decide to do what we felt was best, turn him into an outfielder. Who knows I can’t predict the future. This isn't good analysis (or analysis of any kind). it's wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: This isn't good analysis (or analysis of any kind). it's wishful thinking. How is it wishful thinking saying my team is better than it was yesterday? Isnt it wishful thinking saying a prospect is going to be a stud? We don’t know he will, we don’t know he won’t. What I do know is Hand and Cimber are proven players that immediately upgrade our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, mse326 said: Your knowledge of economics and asset value is clearly zero if you think this means something. My point was simply improving the major league team surely can't be the ONLY fact that matters. If it is then you'd be ok with the good 7th inning guy. If you aren't then you care about the prospects too and your evaluation here is poor. It wasn't steep, it was way too high. And that is how bad teams remain bad or become bad earlier and for longer. If you'll take that you haven't paid attention to the MLB at all. Bad teams use this excuse and then when they stay bad they say well we tried. Again you are pretending that Hand is the only reliever available and/or you can only get a reliever by trading Mejia. Neither of those are true. You’ll have to please forgive me for thinking we boosted our chance at a World Series this year. I call it steep. Hand and Cimber are proven Mejia is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Cimber are proven A 27 year old rookie who had a good first half is FARRRRR from proven. And again you don't get the concept of asset value. It doesn't mater who is or isn't proven except to the extent it changes the asset value. And Hand's value is not close to Mejia's value even if he has proven himself. Trading Mejia for Hand is a negative value transaction. You don't make a negative value transaction. That is basic economics. If you wanted to trade Mejia you could have gotten more value And I'll ask again why do you think you could only get Hand or could only get a reliever by giving up Mejia. You had other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.