The official training camp thread

[NudeTayne]

5 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

idk man. Ive been well documented on these boards being the guy who screams "YOUR WR ONLY IS GOOD AS YOUR QB!!!!". citing like 15+ examples of this and I still believe it.

For Dez to be a bad as he was last year, on the downhill of his career with Dak at QB, you have to wonder what he actually is at this point. Higgins was pretty well spoken about coming out of college and has showed flashes when the ball is able to consistently get to into his catch radius. Especially towards the second half of the season last year.

Dez is declining and is 30 years old. Higgins/Coleman now are skilled prospects who are 23 year old not even hitting their peak with (now) a legit QB throwing them the ball.

I would feel much more comfortable rolling the dice with Coleman/Higgins youthful talent over Dez's declining ability, pricetag and locker room presence. I odnt even want Dez on this team if he was free to be honest if it means his headaches + cutting a young guy.

You keep putting those two guys together for some reason and making your case about them like they are a package deal ?.

[AkronsWitness]

Just now, NudeTayne said:

You keep putting those two guys together for some reason and making your case about them like they are a package deal ?.

I would honestly take either one. I (read the receipts) have always thought Corey Coleman STILL hasnt gotten a fair shake. Your expecting a WR to go out there and produce 1,200 yard and 10+ TDs a year as a #1 with the worst QB situation probably in NFL history. Especialy when Coleman has looked good when he has been healthy with catchable balls in his area. I feel that people hold his freak hand injuries against him and somehow equate that to him not being good as a WR. Which is wrong. Put Corey Coleman on the Packers and watch him blow up into a 1,200 yard 10+ TD WR is my point.

Higgins has always had talent and I liked the pick. You spent 2 year developing this guy who was highly spoken about coming out who, given the opportunity, has showed he is a solid capable #3/#4 when the football is actually placed in his catching radius. I remember last year when he was a hot waiver wire pickup in fantasy because he was making plays.

Point is, this is a rebuilding team who has spend the last 2 years tanking for these guys. Guys like Coleman/Higgins to rebuild. Now that your in a position with stability and veterans and leadership at important positions for them to succeed, we NOW want to cut them for a glue factory ticking time bomb in the corpse of Dez Bryant?

Nope, no no no no. There is no way I can get on board with Dez. He is a shell of himself with too much baggage. There is a reason TC is starting and nobody has picked him up.

[NudeTayne]

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I would honestly take either one. I (read the receipts) have always thought Corey Coleman STILL hasnt gotten a fair shake. Your expecting a WR to go out there and produce 1,200 yard and 10+ TDs a year as a #1 with the worst QB situation probably in NFL history. Especialy when Coleman has looked good when he has been healthy with catchable balls in his area. I feel that people hold his freak hand injuries against him and somehow equate that to him not being good as a WR. Which is wrong. Put Corey Coleman on the Packers and watch him blow up into a 1,200 yard 10+ TD WR is my point.

Higgins has always had talent and I liked the pick. You spent 2 year developing this guy who was highly spoken about coming out who, given the opportunity, has showed he is a solid capable #3/#4 when the football is actually placed in his catching radius. I remember last year when he was a hot waiver wire pickup in fantasy because he was making plays.

Point is, this is a rebuilding team who has spend the last 2 years tanking for these guys. Guys like Coleman/Higgins to rebuild. Now that your in a position with stability and veterans and leadership at important positions for them to succeed, we NOW want to cut them for a glue factory ticking time bomb in the corpse of Dez Bryant?

Nope, no no no no. There is no way I can get on board with Dez. He is a shell of himself with too much baggage. There is a reason TC is starting and nobody has picked him up.

LOL you are still doing it. Dez Bryant only takes up one roster spot lol. There is no way in hell I'm cutting Corey Coleman. It's clearly Rashard Higgins LOL. 

**edit: I have no idea why my talk-to-text capitalized all of the words below, but I don't want to re-say them all. Just imagine I'm shouting very quietly.*

I LIKED HOLLYWOOD COMING OUT AS WELL FOR WHERE WE GOT HIM IN THE DRAFT AND THOUGHT HE COULD DO SOMETHING. THAT SAID, THE DRAWBACK HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE PLUS ATHLETICISM. THUS FAR, IT IS LOOK TO MOST AS IF HE CANNOT SEPARATE. MAY BE WRONG, BUT I THOUGHT I WAS HEARING ABOUT HIM DROPPING SOME BALLS AS WELL, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS MAIN STICKING POINT.

I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG, BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME IMAGINING CHOOSING HOLLYWOOD HIGGINS OVER DEZ BRYANT UNLESS BRYANT REALLY LOOKS LIKE HE'S DONE. IF BRYANT LOOKS LIKE GARBAGE WHEN HE TRIES OUT BECAUSE HIS KNEES ARE TRULY SHOT, WELL THEN THAT'S A PRETTY EASY CHOICE TO MAKE. AGAIN, THOUGH, WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT BRYANT TAKING ONE ROSTER SPOT. LET'S BOTH AGREE THAT COREY COLEMAN IS NOT GETTING CUT.

 

[Kiwibrown]

@NudeTayne

My issue with Dez is what does he think he is coming here to do?

Is he coming here to out muscle dudes on 3rd down and redzone plays? 30 recs 300 yards and 3 tds?

Or is he coming here to catch 90 balls for 1200 yards and 12 TDs?

2012-2014 Dez doesn't exist anymore, he is a big guy with good hands who isn't what he used to be. 
 

[AkronsWitness]

7 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

LOL you are still doing it. Dez Bryant only takes up one roster spot lol. There is no way in hell I'm cutting Corey Coleman. It's clearly Rashard Higgins LOL. 

**edit: I have no idea why my talk-to-text capitalized all of the words below, but I don't want to re-say them all. Just imagine I'm shouting very quietly.*

I LIKED HOLLYWOOD COMING OUT AS WELL FOR WHERE WE GOT HIM IN THE DRAFT AND THOUGHT HE COULD DO SOMETHING. THAT SAID, THE DRAWBACK HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE PLUS ATHLETICISM. THUS FAR, IT IS LOOK TO MOST AS IF HE CANNOT SEPARATE. MAY BE WRONG, BUT I THOUGHT I WAS HEARING ABOUT HIM DROPPING SOME BALLS AS WELL, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS MAIN STICKING POINT.

I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG, BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME IMAGINING CHOOSING HOLLYWOOD HIGGINS OVER DEZ BRYANT UNLESS BRYANT REALLY LOOKS LIKE HE'S DONE. IF BRYANT LOOKS LIKE GARBAGE WHEN HE TRIES OUT BECAUSE HIS KNEES ARE TRULY SHOT, WELL THEN THAT'S A PRETTY EASY CHOICE TO MAKE. AGAIN, THOUGH, WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT BRYANT TAKING ONE ROSTER SPOT. LET'S BOTH AGREE THAT COREY COLEMAN IS NOT GETTING CUT.

 

hahaha Im giving you my opinion on either option since they have to cut one. My case for each of them to stay over Dez if you will.

Your first paragraph about Higgins serpeation and dropped balls is the exact reason Dez is unemployed and got cut. The major downfall of Dez is that he cannot, and never did, create seperation. He has always even in his prime been a redzone WR. Now he is 30 and his ability to create space is nearly non existent. On top of that, he led the league in drops last year.

So Dez, right now, is 30 years old, a headcase who cant create space and has never been a YAC or downfield receiver who has the worst hands of any starter in the NFL. That what he is. 

[AkronsWitness]

12 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

@NudeTayne

My issue with Dez is what does he think he is coming here to do?

Is he coming here to out muscle dudes on 3rd down and redzone plays? 30 recs 300 yards and 3 tds?

Or is he coming here to catch 90 balls for 1200 yards and 12 TDs?

2012-2014 Dez doesn't exist anymore, he is a big guy with good hands who isn't what he used to be. 
 

Exactly, Dez is currently just a split out TE at this point in his career. He has never been able to separate and its even clearer now. He is a redzone fade route specialist.

Which brings me back full circle that you can get the same production out of Eric Decker with 1/2 the cost and 10x the amount of locker room presence.

[Thomas5737]

4 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

hahaha Im giving you my opinion on either option since they have to cut one. My case for each of them to stay over Dez if you will.

Your first paragraph about Higgins serpeation and dropped balls is the exact reason Dez is unemployed and got cut. The major downfall of Dez is that he cannot, and never did, create seperation. He has always even in his prime been a redzone WR. Now he is 30 and his ability to create space is nearly non existent. On top of that, he led the league in drops last year.

So Dez, right now, is 30 years old, a headcase who cant create space and has never been a YAC or downfield receiver who has the worst hands of any starter in the NFL. That what he is. 

Higgins turns 24 before Dez turns 30 so we either need to stop calling Dez 30 or start calling Higgins 24. Dez doesn't have the worst hands in the NFL, wouldn't even have the worst hands on the Browns. There are some similarities between Dez and Higgins but Dez is stronger and wins more "jump ball" situations. Higgins on the Cowboys roster last year doesn't get the production Dez did. Dez does have his issues but I don't question at all that Dez would be a better receiving option on the field over Higgins this year, it's the other stuff. Higgins probably doesn't make our roster this year so that isn't saying much.

[AkronsWitness]

11 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Higgins turns 24 before Dez turns 30 so we either need to stop calling Dez 30 or start calling Higgins 24. Dez doesn't have the worst hands in the NFL, wouldn't even have the worst hands on the Browns. There are some similarities between Dez and Higgins but Dez is stronger and wins more "jump ball" situations. Higgins on the Cowboys roster last year doesn't get the production Dez did. Dez does have his issues but I don't question at all that Dez would be a better receiving option on the field over Higgins this year, it's the other stuff. Higgins probably doesn't make our roster this year so that isn't saying much.

My mistake, Dez was 2nd in  the NFL in drops last year so his hands are suspect but volume factors in so take it for what you will. Ricardo Louis has the worst hands on the Browns, not Higgins and Im starting to think some are starting to confuse Louis and Higgins. 

Ricardo Louis was #6 in the NFL in drops last year while ONLY targeted 52 times compared to other guys on the list in the top 5 who were targeted 100+ times. Louis had the highest drop rate in the NFL but played sparingly compared to legit #1s. He was awful, not Higgins.

 

[Kiwibrown]

9 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Exactly, Dez is currently just a split out TE at this point in his career. He has never been able to separate and its even clearer now. He is a redzone fade route specialist.

Which brings me back full circle that you can get the same production out of Eric Decker with 1/2 the cost and 10x the amount of locker room presence.

I agree.

To me it seems like Dorsey is happy to fill the team with cancer types if he truly wants Dez. There are already some hard/big/difficult personalities in the Locker. 

Baker
Landry
Caloway
JG
Randall
Brantley
Kendricks
Collins

[AkronsWitness]

5 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I agree.

To me it seems like Dorsey is happy to fill the team with cancer types if he truly wants Dez. There are already some hard/big/difficult personalities in the Locker. 

Baker
Landry
Caloway
JG
Randall
Brantley
Kendricks
Collins

It really blows my mind how they always preach 'culture' and the 'right way' but go out and draft Callaway and now want to sign Dez freaking Bryant and Pacman Jones?!

Howabout sign Decker and DRC instead of those two. These are sitautions where I wish I was the GM of the Browns.

[pnies20]

I'll be pissed if we sign dez. Hes drama and average on top of that. Please don't.

[Fatgerman]

10 hours ago, Mind Character said:

Tyrod/Baker... Flacco/Jackson.... Dalton/Matt Barkley??... Big Ben/Mason Rudolph.... AFC North QBs and Backups are an interesting one.. At what point does Lamar Jackson start scaring the hell out of us this year with Ravens foolery....

Dalton and Barkley are average at best, and that's being nice. Big Ben is still good, but getting old fast. I don't believe in Rudolph at all. Flacco's career is on life support.

When it comes to Lamar, I'm keeping in mind how at this time last year Kizer was looking like a stud, future franchise QB. I'm not saying he's a bust, but it's far too early to put much stock in his performance. Admittedly, I wasn't high on him coming outta the draft, but I fully expect him to be dangerous, especially if his coaches cater the offense to his skills, with plenty of simple reads and RPO plays.

[Fatgerman]

8 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

hmmmm. I dont think its Gordon. Though Im really not starting to understand the whole philosophy of adding talent to groups that already have a enourmous amount of talent there. How about we spend some more time and money scouting what options out there to upgrade offensive line depth or another pass rusher instead of adding a 4th starting caliber WR or CB.

I think it says more about Higgins/Coleman than their disbelief in Gordon.

 

If you're at the store, you buy what's on the shelf. Breeland is arguably the best available FA on the market. If there was a worthwhile offensive tackle or pass rusher on the market, I'm sure we'd be exploring those players. You don't ignore opportunity, ever.

[Kiwibrown]

3 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

It really blows my mind how they always preach 'culture' and the 'right way' but go out and draft Callaway and now want to sign Dez freaking Bryant and Pacman Jones?!

Howabout sign Eric Decker and DRC instead of those two. These are sitautions where I wish I was the GM of the Browns.

Yeah, dorsey don't give a crap about character. 

I get that boy Scouts and choir boys don't win superbowls, but neither do lunatics and gangsta's. It is a fine line that he crosses too much IMO> 

[Kiwibrown]

 Last 3 minutes. DeMarco talks about DEz's lack of maturity.