Leader Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Heimdallr said: Yeah, and the writer's openly say that during the interview after the episode. They needed a tense, non-action scene to reset the audience. Oh. There ya go. Thanks. Hadnt seen that but it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Broncofan said: I'm just looking for some way to explain the very rapid timeline to get to the NK. Going in to week 3 - I figured this battle would cover two episodes - probably with the good guys on the short end of the stick going in to week 4. No reason I thought that actually....probably just mentally dividing up the number of episodes left....and taking a guess. Fact they wrapped it up in Week 3 doesnt bother me in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Isn't a MacGuffin an object, not a prophecy? Like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. That is the classic case but it doesn't have to be. "Rosebud" for instance in Citizen Kane. While it was an object (as we learn at the end) it's use to drive the plot were as final words and the reporters' attempts to find what it means. Quote In fiction, a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist pursues From wiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Leader said: Thought to - but failed to address this part of your comment. In movie making its a known......tactic (?) method or device - that you've actually got to let the audience relax some. If a director is just bludgeoning his audience with complete, total, non-stop sensory overload - they numb out on you. I'd edited my earlier comment to include this: A long time back the Red Woman told Ayra: "You'll close many eyes......." A prophesy that turned out 100% correct as Ayra closed more eyes than anybody else. I've no clue how the books depicted this (and dont care) - but as a method of story telling, I thought this was well done. 9 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: Yeah, and the writer's openly say that during the interview after the episode. They needed a tense, non-action scene to reset the audience. 7 minutes ago, Leader said: Oh. There ya go. Thanks. Hadnt seen that but it makes sense. Absolutely fair point on needing to let the audience breathe. I"m a big believer in needing to space out action with character moments. Again, I have no problem with the Melisandre scene, it does that exact goal and achieves further character/story payback. Ideally, those in-between moments let us see more into the character. That library hide/fear scene, IMO, didn't do any of that. But I get your point on needing a break in the action. I would have gone with the stealth/tree swinging/whatever, but that's just me lol. All good. Edited May 2, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Leader said: Going in to week 3 - I figured this battle would cover two episodes - probably with the good guys on the short end of the stick going in to week 4. No reason I thought that actually....probably just mentally dividing up the number of episodes left....and taking a guess. Fact they wrapped it up in Week 3 doesnt bother me in the least. Yeah, I don't have a problem with wrapping up the Battle of Winterfell in 1 week - more a choice of how they spent their 80 mins for the battle. But all good either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: I would have gone with the stealth/tree swinging/whatever, but that's just me lol. All good. A stealth tree swinging thing eh? Okay. Thats cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mse326 said: That is the classic case but it doesn't have to be. "Rosebud" for instance in Citizen Kane. While it was an object (as we learn at the end) it's use to drive the plot were as final words and the reporters' attempts to find what it means. Quote In fiction, a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist pursues From wiki Would we describe the Prophecy-centric characters as protagonists here? Maybe we could have with Stannis back in the day, but with hindsight that seems like a reach. Mellisandre, no. Bran (if he's even interested in it), no. Thoros/Beric/anyone else in the Lord of Light following, no (unless you're a Beric is Azor Ahai person, but then the prophecy isn't a MacGuffin). The protagonists goal is to do the same thing the prophecy says they should do, but the prophecy itself isn't their motivator. Jon has been clear that his only real motivating drive is survival. Edited May 2, 2019 by ramssuperbowl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Leader said: A stealth tree swinging thing eh? Okay. Thats cool. LOL either an Arya stealth sneak with her learned skills / walker kill & wear his face / tree swinging / whatever scene (that last tree swing idea wasn't mine, just what's posted - same with the walker face wearing idea). Spend 20-30 secs showing that as the break instead of the library sneak/fear scene. So we're clear lol Edited May 2, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Btw - taking a different tact..... I thought the music and editing at the end was terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, Broncofan said: LOL either an Arya stealth sneak with her learned skills / walker kill & wear his face / tree swinging / whatever scene (that last tree swing idea wasn't mine, just what's posted - same with the walker face wearing idea). Spend 20-30 secs showing that as the break instead of the library. I can tell you spend more time thinking about this than I do Ha! T'sall good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Would we describe the Prophecy-centric characters as protagonists here? Maybe we could have with Stannis back in the day, but with hindsight that seems like a reach. Mellisandre, no. Bran (if he's even interested in it), no. Thoros/Beric/anyone else in the Lord of Light following, no (unless you're a Beric is Azor Ahai person, but then the prophecy isn't a MacGuffin). The protagonists goal is to do the same thing the prophecy says they should do, but the prophecy itself isn't their motivator. Jon has been clear that his only real motivating drive is survival. Jon doesn't exist without the prophecy. Rhaegar thought himself to be AA. Robert's rebellion also doesn't occur. So you still have Targs as kings. Everything changes without the prophecy. Even if a character doesn't know the prophecy their actions are driven by circumstances that are only present because of the actions others took before them because of the prophecy. Also MacGuffin's have been used for antagonists too. Usually a protagonist but it isn't actually a necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 On 4/30/2019 at 9:56 AM, Mossburg said: I think people just need to sit back and not expect the glory days of GoT, and accept that they're watching I think it is far less about telling people what they should expect and accept... ... and more about telling people that if they are sticking around... on a ride that they don't enjoy... Hey, maybe go ahead and step off at the next stop. Save us the grief? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, Leader said: Btw - taking a different tact..... I thought the music and editing at the end was terrific. And to expand on this - I thought they really paid off Melisandre in a HUGE way. Not just by giving her purpose - but by also showing her flaws. She didn't get the call on Stannis being the Prince Who Was Promised, and so flushed Shireen's life away...along with those who died vs. the Boltons. She was far from perfect - and the struggles she had in lighting the trench spoke to this again (and her terror as the Walkers approached). So for her to fade away at the end, and to call back Davos' intentions for revenge...that was excellent. While I didn't like the library scene, it shouldn't take away my overall view that the ep really delivered some great moments - and for characters like Melisandre, I thought that was a great payoff to her arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: And to expand on this - I thought they really paid off Melisandre in a HUGE way. Not just by giving her purpose - but by also showing her flaws. She didn't get the call on Stannis being the Prince Who Was Promised, and so flushed Shireen's life away...along with those who died vs. the Boltons. She was far from perfect - and the struggles she had in lighting the trench spoke to this again (and her terror as the Walkers approached). So for her to fade away at the end, and to call back Davos' intentions for revenge...that was excellent. While I didn't like the library scene, it shouldn't take away my overall view that the ep really delivered some great moments - and for characters like Melisandre, I thought that was a great payoff to her arc. Agree. The Red Woman got a good send off. In truth - she DID have a purpose. The road to it however wasnt straight and narrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mse326 said: Jon doesn't exist without the prophecy. Rhaegar thought himself to be AA. Robert's rebellion also doesn't occur. So you still have Targs as kings. Everything changes without the prophecy. Even if a character doesn't know the prophecy their actions are driven by circumstances that are only present because of the actions others took before them because of the prophecy. Also MacGuffin's have been used for antagonists too. Usually a protagonist but it isn't actually a necessity. But it is a necessity that it's for a central character, right? And wouldn't you see the value in having a scene where you address this somehow? (This is also why I don't get why Melissandre just walked off and died at the end.) Presume LM is still there, and her last words before Jon executes her are that she knew it would be Arya because [reasons] and the prophecy was a lie. Bran can cut in with his "it brought people where they needed to be" line like he told Theon. Dany liked hearing that prophecy, so there's emotion there as she struggles to figure out who the rightful heir to the throne is, so there's a cutaway shot. And obviously you'd write it better than I did, but you address that you didn't just forget the prophecy and you close the loop on a character who just kind of wandered away. Edited May 2, 2019 by ramssuperbowl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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