GDT Week 1 - Steelers visit the Browns

[AkronsWitness]

23 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Lol no.  We already have two solid to spectacular DE’s.

If we were gonna sell the farm, Mack should have been the target.

By 2 spectacular DEs I hope your not including Ogbah in that. Ogbah is solid as 4-7 sack per year guy but he is far from unreplacable 

[AkronsWitness]

11 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

Rather have Oliver.

Oliver is still a 50/50 to me. Hes like the Myles Garrett of DTs in the sense that people rank him so high because of what he could become and have Aaron Donald stars in their eyes.

Bosa, to me, is much much more of a sure thing carrying far less bust potential. He is going to be more highly regarded in the draft process than his brother who is one of the 5 best DEs in football already. He is like a already polished version of Myles Garrett coming out.

Sign me up for Garrett/Davis/Ogunjobi/Bosa with Avery, Ogbah and Odenigbo rotating...Holy hell Batman

[NateDawg]

Bosa is the best in America, but unless we pick first, I don’t see that happening. I’m not going all out either when we are pretty good at end at least with Myles. I’d love to somehow have him fall into our lap though. He’s almost identical to big bro.

[AkronsWitness]

6 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Bosa is the best in America, but unless we pick first, I don’t see that happening. I’m not going all out either when we are pretty good at end at least with Myles. I’d love to somehow have him fall into our lap though. He’s almost identical to big bro.

IMO he is better than Joey as a prospect because he has the same strength and technique but he is a tiny bit smaller and more compact which leads him to having a bit more quickness than Joey around the edge. If your telling me you could pair Myles Garrett who people project as a Julius Peppers type player and Bosa who reminds me so much of Jared Allen with his blend of technique, power/speed--you wouldnt move to #1 for that? I would haha but Im a crazy person

 

[NateDawg]

11 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

IMO he is better than Joey as a prospect because he has the same strength and technique but he is a tiny bit smaller and more compact which leads him to having a bit more quickness than Joey around the edge. If your telling me you could pair Myles Garrett who people project as a Julius Peppers type player and Bosa who reminds me so much of Jared Allen with his blend of technique, power/speed--you wouldnt move to #1 for that? I would haha but Im a crazy person

 

I would consider it but the cost of going to #1 is pretty steep regardless where you pick in the draft. So another tank year is likely the only way he ends up in Cleveland. He’s incredible though. I’d hate to see another AFCN team get him.

[AkronsWitness]

Just now, NateDawg said:

I would consider it but the cost of going to #1 is pretty steep regardless where you pick in the draft. So another tank year is likely the only way he ends up in Cleveland. He’s incredible though. I’d hate to see another AFCN team get him.

Ehh, it would cost roughly around what it did for Mack. 2 firsts and a mid rounder. Assume that we finish with the 10th pick in the draft. I bet you could move up to #1-#3 where Bosa will be drafted for 2019 1st, 2020 1st and 2019 2nd. I would do it in a heartbeat

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

By 2 spectacular DEs I hope your not including Ogbah in that. Ogbah is solid as 4-7 sack per year guy but he is far from unreplacable 

Ogbah has played less than 1 more game as a 4-3 DE end than Garrett. He does have 3 less sacks (7 to 4), twice as many forced fumbles and 6 times as many passes defensed. Yeah Garrett looks like he is going to be spectacular but Ogbah at 24 certainly hasn't proven to be in need of upgrading through 9+ games as a 4-3 DE.

[buno67]

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

By 2 spectacular DEs I hope your not including Ogbah in that. Ogbah is solid as 4-7 sack per year guy but he is far from unreplacable 

That’s why he said solid to spectacular. What is solid and the other is spectacular. 

[bruceb]

weather.com is making all this noise about the weather seem rather unsensational, in Rocky River, at least:

"Periods of rain. Becoming windy in the afternoon. High 63F. Winds E at 20 to 30 mph. Chance of rain 100%. Rainfall possibly over one inch."

https://weather.com/weather/today/l/Rocky+River+OH+44116:4:US

Suppose all hell could break loose 11 miles East.

[Thomas5737]

More points scored or turnovers in this game?

 

My guess is 5 total turnovers so it may be close. I'll still take the points with the Browns winning 6-5. We'll have to wait another week to see how the team actually looks.

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

That’s why he said solid to spectacular. What is solid and the other is spectacular. 

I know but great defenses have multiple people on the front 7 to pay attention to. The Browns have 1 currently in Garrett. To make the leap from good to great you need multiples. Ogbah doesnt do that currently unless Im sleeping on a 8-12 sack season nobody saw coming. The Browns pass rush is still far too reliant on Garrett. What happens if he gets hurt again. You cant just have all of your pass rush coming from 1 guy and Ogbah is not scaring anybody as a #2.

Essentially, you need to have 2 guys who can win and rush the passer WITHOUT scheming for it. You need to be able to line up and generate pressure without being in a blitz package. Lst year the Browns had to generate pressure by blitzing which led to our mid level CBs in man coverage too often to get destroyed. They need to get more guys who can consistently win 1v1 matchups and create pressure in a base defense. The currently dont have that second option and Ogbah is not it. 

Hes solid. Hes not a gamechanger, he cant win 1v1 consistently in base and nobody is game planning for him. Hes not a player like Brandon Graham which some think he is.....yet. I have faith but Im in the right now mode. Not lets see if he develops and stays healthy mode.

[bruceb]

17 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Ogbah doesnt do that currently unless Im sleeping on a 8-12 sack season nobody saw coming.

If he and Garrett are healthy, I see this coming.

[hornbybrown]

8 minutes ago, bruceb said:

If he and Garrett are healthy, I see this coming.

Agreed, with how much attention Garrett will draw Ogbah should be very good this year. 

[Kiwibrown]

22 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

Agreed, with how much attention Garrett will draw Ogbah should be very good this year. 

I’d add in Avery, Larry Ogunjobi and our linebackers as other beneficiaries of mg pass rush.

myles takes us from a bottom 4-5 pass rushing unit to top 10.

[Thomas5737]

34 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I know but great defenses have multiple people on the front 7 to pay attention to. The Browns have 1 currently in Garrett. To make the leap from good to great you need multiples. Ogbah doesnt do that currently unless Im sleeping on a 8-12 sack season nobody saw coming. The Browns pass rush is still far too reliant on Garrett. What happens if he gets hurt again. You cant just have all of your pass rush coming from 1 guy and Ogbah is not scaring anybody as a #2.

Essentially, you need to have 2 guys who can win and rush the passer WITHOUT scheming for it. You need to be able to line up and generate pressure without being in a blitz package. Lst year the Browns had to generate pressure by blitzing which led to our mid level CBs in man coverage too often to get destroyed. They need to get more guys who can consistently win 1v1 matchups and create pressure in a base defense. The currently dont have that second option and Ogbah is not it. 

Hes solid. Hes not a gamechanger, he cant win 1v1 consistently in base and nobody is game planning for him. Hes not a player like Brandon Graham which some think he is.....yet. I have faith but Im in the right now mode. Not lets see if he develops and stays healthy mode.

How did Garrett do in the Eagles game? None of his positive plays were made when he was doubled. On every one of his positive plays Ogbah was doubled. Ogbah still made his presence felt (1 fumble recovery and assisted on a Garrett QB sack) while being doubled on the positive plays that Garrett made in that game. Garrett looks to be a great speed rusher and Ogbah isn't, that is certainly true. Garrett will run down RBs on the opposite side of the field and Ogbah won't, that also is true. Ogbah handles his assignments in his space well though and he does get push and should be a great compliment to Garrett. There are at least 5 defensive positions that I would be worried about upgrading before our LE. They are both interior line, CB, S and S. We'll see how Collins (PFF's highest graded preseason LB) does. I already believe Ward should take care of his business. Schobert and Kirksey both fall into the same category as Ogbah to me, if they are healthy we don't have to worry about that position even if they will never be all pro types.

I agree with Bruce that if Garrett and Ogbah are healthy I would be disappointed if Ogbah didn't get at least 8 sacks. He was our biggest threat before Myles played and he led the team in sacks from his rookie year until Garrett was healthy. Ogbah had 2 sacks in the 4 games before Garrett started playing. Garrett had 3 sacks in the 6 games without Ogbah. They will certainly both benefit from having the other lined up on the other side of the line. They will also benefit if we can actually play with a lead. Our offense didn't give our defense many chances to pin their ears back and attack the QB. If they can do that this year I think you see both Garrett and Ogbah's sack totals skyrocket. Then there won't be the perceived issue of not having enough pass rusher when the real issue was probably that we didn't have enough pass rush opportunities because our opposition weren't in many "must pass" situations.