RB Frank Gore: 4th all-time rusher

[pwny]

23 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

Compilers don't rip off 1,200 seasons in their mid 30s, for a playoff team in their next to last season. In 1984, Riggins also produced five 100 yard plus games.

John Riggings averaged 947.2 yards per season from his aged 30 season onward. Frank Gore has averaged 1037.4. Please tell me how averaging 90 yards more per year is bad.

[TheKillerNacho]

On 9/19/2018 at 7:30 PM, NFLExpert49 said:

That's clearly not a serious question.

Franco Harris is the most overrated person, place, thing, situation, or idea in the history of this universe. It is absolutely hilarious that the man is in the HOF. 

Your power of deduction is impressive.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

12 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

Like baseball's OPS, yards per carry for a RB can easily be overvalued. Greatness for a RB is about carrying the attack, if anyone thinks Alvin Kamera will be in the HOF, they are mistaken. Riggins was in the grouping of the top backs in the NFL, and his legacy is secure as a late bloomer who proved his case on the biggest stage. The lifetime stats are extremely impressive, and unlike Gore, Riggins was a force in his next to last season. No compiling here. Like Bettis, Riggins yards per carry was simply limited by all those valuable short yardage situations he had to convert for his teams.   

A player's average helps further determine the quality of the result, and how it's achieved, instead of just looking at the result itself. A 1200 yard season isn't that impressive if the quality of the majority of your snaps are lackluster. Anyone can get there if you just give them the ball. So what. He scored a boatload of touchdowns at the goal line in Gibbs offense over the course of two seasons. Doesn't mean he was a quality runner most of his career. Riggins played 14 years, and really lives of 82' post season, 83', and 84'. There is a reason why you won't find any highlights of his days with the Jets, or even before Gibbs arrived in 1981.

And he didn't magically become a better runner after all those carries post age 30 before Gibbs turned the team around. That doesn't make sense.

Kamara's career just got off the ground. You don't know how his legacy will stack up years from now. No one does.

And converting short yardage situations isn't going to negatively impact your average if the majority of your runs are of a good quality. I don't think Gibbs whispered in Riggins' ear on 3rd and 1 to just get the one yard, then fall down. Tons of HOF backs converted a ton of short yard situations. Their averages didn't stagnate because of it. Because they weren't compliers. Riggins was.

If Riggins is an easy choice for someone to be enshrined, then Gore should be in. Sticking by that.

[LaserFocus]

2 hours ago, pwny said:

John Riggings averaged 947.2 yards per season from his aged 30 season onward. Frank Gore has averaged 1037.4. Please tell me how averaging 90 yards more per year is bad.

Riggins just wasn't a compiler, and that makes all the difference. His 1984 season was better than what Gore has achieved in quite some time. Riggins played just one more season before hanging it up. Gore will definitely take longer than Riggins in reaching Canton.

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

3 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

Riggins just wasn't a compiler, and that makes all the difference. His 1984 season was better than what Gore has achieved in quite some time. Riggins played just one more season before hanging it up. Gore will definitely take longer than Riggins in reaching Canton.

 

Give Gore the Hogs offensive line. That would help. 

[LaserFocus]

3 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Give Gore the Hogs offensive line. That would help. 

Even the greatest offensive line ever needs a special back to produce when everyone in the stadium knows who is carrying the football. What made Riggins and Bettis so great was the ability to convert those crucial short yardage situations. While backs like Jamaal Charles had pretty yards per carry averages, they were repeatedly stuffed at the point of attack.  

[pwny]

10 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

Riggins just wasn't a compiler, and that makes all the difference. His 1984 season was better than what Gore has achieved in quite some time. Riggins played just one more season before hanging it up. Gore will definitely take longer than Riggins in reaching Canton.

How does playing longer, but averaging less per season and less per touch make him not a compiler compared to someone who averages more per touch and more per season?

[Art_Vandalay]

On 9/17/2018 at 4:02 PM, August4th said:

he has a shot at passing sanders if he plays next yr wow... that has to put him in the hall

He's already making the Hall. If you're top 10 all time, you're a lock. 

[LaserFocus]

10 minutes ago, pwny said:

How does playing longer, but averaging less per season and less per touch make him not a compiler compared to someone who averages more per touch and more per season?

Because Riggins hadn't played his best football until age 30, while Gore's best was already behind him at that age. Riggins naturally has a lower yards per average because of how he was used. When a larger back is needed for those crucial short yardage plays(which sometimes decide games), they will automatically take a hit in the YPA area. The problem with Gore is the significant number of meaningless games and ineffectual carries he's taking on this late in his career. Hall of Fame, yes, but it will take some time.

[LaserFocus]

1 hour ago, PapaShogun said:

A player's average helps further determine the quality of the result, and how it's achieved, instead of just looking at the result itself. A 1200 yard season isn't that impressive if the quality of the majority of your snaps are lackluster. Anyone can get there if you just give them the ball. So what. He scored a boatload of touchdowns at the goal line in Gibbs offense over the course of two seasons. Doesn't mean he was a quality runner most of his career. Riggins played 14 years, and really lives of 82' post season, 83', and 84'. There is a reason why you won't find any highlights of his days with the Jets, or even before Gibbs arrived in 1981.

And he didn't magically become a better runner after all those carries post age 30 before Gibbs turned the team around. That doesn't make sense.

Kamara's career just got off the ground. You don't know how his legacy will stack up years from now. No one does.

And converting short yardage situations isn't going to negatively impact your average if the majority of your runs are of a good quality. I don't think Gibbs whispered in Riggins' ear on 3rd and 1 to just get the one yard, then fall down. Tons of HOF backs converted a ton of short yard situations. Their averages didn't stagnate because of it. Because they weren't compliers. Riggins was.

If Riggins is an easy choice for someone to be enshrined, then Gore should be in. Sticking by that.

If Barry Sanders was used the same way Riggins and Bettis was used, you better believe his yards per carry would be lower, and risk of injury much higher. YPA has value, but limitations as well. One principal reason Bettis is in the Hall and Jamaal Charles and his higher YPA isn't, is the fact Bettis could handle the punishment, and was better later in his career. Most 1,200 backs have more than their share of quality carries, and 100 yard games. 

John Riggins did show potential with the Jets, but the lack of usage was a blessing in disguise. He was a phenomenal athlete in college, and was simply a late developing player. It's extremely rare to see a big back in his 30s outrun secondary players in their 20s, but that was a sign of a future HOF player. Unlike Gore, Riggins didn't stick around for multiple seasons compiling meaningless yards in meaningless games for losing teams. People forget Riggins was the fourth leading rusher in league history when he retired. Overall, a better career than Gore, and voters won't be impressed by a player who hangs on too long.      

[pwny]

1 hour ago, LaserFocus said:

Because Riggins hadn't played his best football until age 30, while Gore's best was already behind him at that age

And yet Gore still averages more yards per year in aged 30 and later seasons. 

[LaserFocus]

27 minutes ago, pwny said:

And yet Gore still averages more yards per year in aged 30 and later seasons. 

It's not about averages, it's about impact. Riggins has more 100 yards games, and delivered a postseason for the ages over 30. When the end was obvious in 1985, after his strong 1984, HOF voters had recent evidence of great play. Gore, not so much, and these 60 yard rushing days aren't impressive.  

[BayRaider]

Gore '06 to '12 is one of my favorite RB's to watch ever. Great player. Should be a HoF. 

[game3525]

16 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

Martin and Riggins would not have been easy HOF picks if it was all about volume. Ditto for Jerome Bettis. Gore did have an impressive peak, but the issue now is about quality. He's now inching forward with 60 yard rushing days, and that's been going on for years. He rarely touches 100 yards anymore, and that's revealing.

Disagree.

I don't think either Martin or Riggins sniff the HOF if it wasn't for volume. Neither of them were elite level talents IMO. But both broke significant statistical milestones that get you into the HOF due to being good players, who played for a long time (Martin finished top 5 in career rushing yards, while Riggins reached 100+ total touchdowns, which was a major milestone when he retired in 1985). 

BTW, it is kind of ridiculous how Riggins is in the HOF, but Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James are not. 

[FinSting]

2 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Disagree.

I don't think either Martin or Riggins sniff the HOF if it wasn't for volume. Neither of them were elite level talents IMO. But both broke significant statistical milestones that get you into the HOF due to being good players, who played for a long time (Martin finished top 5 in career rushing yards, while Riggins reached 100+ total touchdowns, which was a major milestone when he retired in 1985). 

Riggins averaged 19 TD's per season from '83-'84 after scoring 38 TD's in those two season. That will make you a household name. Regardless of the pollution...crank up that diesel.