2019 Draft Discussion

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, JaireAlex said:

They have a deal to move back with Pittsburg allegedly for 20&52.

I really only see 1 or 2 of "our guys" being there. And I am not sure they are worth it. It's a real short top list for GB this year, as I read it.

Anyways, when 12 comes up this year, it will be the biggest mystery to me what we do. Never felt so uncertain about the play in plan or the players they are looking at as this year.

Just out of curiosity, whose reporting that?  Or that just speculation?

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, JaireAlex said:

See. But Pettine doesn't have that threshold.

The amount of non-HC coaches say is minimal at best.  You're probably going to get a question of whether or not you believe they can work in the scheme, but at the end of the day it's down the FO personnel to make those decisions.  Some HC probably get a bit more say, especially in the organization where they're the final decision maker (i.e. Seattle).

[CWood21]

26 minutes ago, fistfullofbeer said:

How much of a say does our HC have in the draft process?

Depends on the franchise.  They have more say than their coordinators or positional coaches, but it depends on the organizational structure.  Teams like the Seahawks let their HC be the final decision maker, where as teams like Green Bay have their GM make the final decision making.  HC will have a significant say in the evaluation process.

[CWood21]

10 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Indeed.

Also motivated by Jaire was just a damn good prospect and there was no better cb/dl/edge there. Only guy at that position value/fit/level was Derwin James between 14-18. It would be interesting to know who was higher. But worth an extra one in a better draft class no doubt. Pretty comparable picks, unlike this year which just lacks that high end.

I was curious where Edmunds was on the board.

[JaireAlex]

1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said:

Coaches don't pick the players, the GM picks the players and the scouts inform the GM.  Generally at most the input coaches get is "what are you looking for" or "between these three guys, who do you like best" kind of stuff.  If Gutekunst wasn't willing to bend or ignore the CB height threshold, he wouldn't have been the pick no mater how much Pettine wanted him.

Coaches can break ties, and can inform priorities, but they don't set your board (or at least shouldn't).  Most likely what happened is they asked Pettine "Hey what do you need to run the defense" and he says "Cornerbacks!  I need Cornerbacks" then they say "Okay, assuming Ward is gone, watch Alexander, Mike Hughes, Josh Jackson, Isaiah Oliver, and Carlton Davis; rank them; and give your grades/observations."  When he comes back with Alexander as #1 with a bullet they discuss internally whether they would take him at all.

I remember TT or MM discussing this long ago. MM just gave them the "types" of guys they wanted. He didn't have much to do with the draft. They discussed what the scouts found. TT did all the picking in the War room but once when MM got to take over.

I imagine that's a lot different for rounds one and two, but it's not a huge board. Lots of players don't fit. Some fail in other ways. I mean if you look at Richard Rodgers, the second most successful TE in his draft, you see why they took him. That was a bad draft. He checked all boxes but athleticism.

This draft is a veritable gold mine. And many players make grade. Also, if you want to know the kinds of players they want at TE, Sternberger is coming in for a visit. I have him as number 1b of realistic targets, number 2b TE for GB over all

[JaireAlex]

13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Just out of curiosity, whose reporting that?  Or that just speculation?

Reported here as heard over the radio.

 

But Gute already said he is working out trade up and trade down scenarios. So, it makes sense. He had said a trade was unlikely too because they won't have the same number of players available as last year.

I would love the trade down......but obviously I don't know who they want at 12. Just my guesswork in the dark and dislike of the top of this class especially at 12

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

Reported hear as heard over the radio.

 

But I Gute already said he is working out trade up and trade down scenarios. So, it makes sense. He had said a trade was unlikely too because they won't have the same number of players available as last year.

Seems like speculation.  Most teams are going through the standard feelers where they try and figure out what teams are going to want, and how far teams are willing to move down or up.  I'd put like a slightly above zero percent chance that the Packers and Steelers have an "agreed in principle" deal, because the Steelers wouldn't make a move up unless they knew their guy was there.

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Seems like speculation.  Most teams are going through the standard feelers where they try and figure out what teams are going to want, and how far teams are willing to move down or up.  I'd put like a slightly above zero percent chance that the Packers and Steelers have an "agreed in principle" deal, because the Steelers wouldn't make a move up unless they knew their guy was there.

Think: Kevin Costner

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean, I believe that teams are discussing all sorts of trade scenarios.  Not in terms of specific players, but in terms of "if we/you wanted to move from x to y, what sort of deal would you/we need" just so these things are quick to consummate during the draft.

Like I can guarantee the Packers are putting out feelers for all sorts of "move up from 30" and "move back from 30" scenarios.   Which does not indicate intent, just that if they can/want to move from there they will be able to.

Obviously all of these are contingent on certain players being available/gone which would precipitate a move.  But I doubt teams are discussing players, just theoretical pick for pick swaps.

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, I believe that teams are discussing all sorts of trade scenarios.  Not in terms of specific players, but in terms of "if we/you wanted to move from x to y, what sort of deal would you/we need" just so these things are quick to consummate during the draft.

Like I can guarantee the Packers are putting out feelers for all sorts of "move up from 30" and "move back from 30" scenarios.   Which does not indicate intent, just that if they can/want to move from there they will be able to.

Obviously all of these are contingent on certain players being available/gone which would precipitate a move.  But I doubt teams are discussing players, just theoretical pick for pick swaps.

Pretty much.  It's part of the fact gathering process.  You need to know what it's going to cost to move up or move down.  Teams are only on the clock for 10 minutes, and you have to have a pretty good idea of what it's going to take to move up or down.

[JaireAlex]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Seems like speculation.  Most teams are going through the standard feelers where they try and figure out what teams are going to want, and how far teams are willing to move down or up.  I'd put like a slightly above zero percent chance that the Packers and Steelers have an "agreed in principle" deal, because the Steelers wouldn't make a move up unless they knew their guy was there.

As Gute said last year, the deals were worked out ahead. Of course, they are tentative and conditional.

But as Gute himself said he was setting up trade up and trade down scenarios, the only question is whether this particular tentative deal is just a false rumor. Already, most teams have a good idea how the board will fall (and Gute again has said such).

[CWood21]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

As Gute said last year, the deals were worked out ahead. Of course, they are tentative and conditional.

But as Gute himself said he was setting up trade up and trade down scenarios, the only question is whether this particular tentative deal is just a false rumor. Already, most teams have a good idea how the board will fall (and Gute again has said such).

That's my point.  Until the pick gets significantly closer to being on the clock, any substantial discussions don't really happen.  Prior to the draft, the Saints probably called up teams in that 10-16 range to figure out what it'd take to move up 27.  Given the fact that they lacked a SRP, it seems likely that teams weren't willing to move back so far for a future FRP.  The whole concept that there's a deal in place is false.  Pittsburgh probably legitimately asked what the price to move up is, and that's where this whole "rumor" is coming from.

[PossibleCabbage]

One thing I've always wondered- During a draft when two teams consummate a pick for pick trade while one of them is on the clock, does the team moving down know who the team moving up is picking?  I mean, "before the pick is made".  Is it just a professional curiosity thing that you don't ask?

[CWood21]

9 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

One thing I've always wondered- During a draft when two teams consummate a pick for pick trade while one of them is on the clock, does the team moving down know who the team moving up is picking?  I mean, "before the pick is made".  Is it just a professional curiosity thing that you don't ask?

From what I've heard, no.  Maybe once the trade has been finalized, some teams would probably tell.

[AlexGreen#20]

7 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

One thing I've always wondered- During a draft when two teams consummate a pick for pick trade while one of them is on the clock, does the team moving down know who the team moving up is picking?  I mean, "before the pick is made".  Is it just a professional curiosity thing that you don't ask?

Most of the time trade downs only occur when you're in the middle of a tier. At that point you don't really care who they pick because the prospects are graded out the same.

Typically it isn't asked, but there are some situations where there's a sort of verbal promise that the team won't pick the guy who the trade down team has an eye on.

This does involve a certain amount of drama though, because the team that traded up could potentially move that information.