Checking in with Trubisky

[Nads786]

49 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I no longer wonder if he has the ability to be a big time NFL QB. He clearly can make the throws and he can clearly run at an elite level.

I now wonder if he can do it consistently and efficiently.

To play devils advocate isn’t that what we said about Cutler?

[beardown3231]

21 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

To play devils advocate isn’t that what we said about Cutler?

We said that about Cutler 48 games into his career.. then 66.. then 82.. and so on. He got a bunch of chances (and honestly I don’t think he was horrible; if he stays healthy in 2010 and 2011, I truly think he gets 1 ring).

I was a Cutler fan, but Trubisky has charisma, athleticism and leadership that Cutler never had. I’d go as far to say Trubisky’s work ethic is superior (I used to have a friend who worked for the Bears who said Cutler’s was so underrated & that he spent a ton of time at HH so this isn’t a knock on Jay) but from what I understand, Mitch is ALWAYS there. Football is the most important thing to Trubisky, and if he fails, it won’t be due to effort. His will to be great is other-worldly like.

Like someone else mentioned, Trubisky has higher highs and higher lows.

I don’t want to say it’s night and day, but it’s close to it and it’s WAY too early to compare the two. Our favorite NFL team has a 24 year old, exciting, mobile, and likeable QB and we’re comparing him to a turnover machine. Be excited, not pessimistic. Let it play out. He has every tool.

[JAF-N72EX]

6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

With 2 rushing TDs as well.

 

Over 16 this is his projected statline

370/562 for 4250 yards (65.9% completion).....34 passing TDs....16 INTs.....97.1 QBR.....37 sacks.....82 rushes.....647 yards rushing.....5 rushing TDs

So he totals 4,697 yards accounted for and 39 TDs. I'd be damn happy with that.

 

Of course the huge run skewed that, the 6 TD game did some as well, but he has 3 INTs that were tipped (2 in the first game) and then Bellamy gutted one up to his defender too. Freak plays have gone both ways for us.

So you would be happy with Ryan Fitzpatrick too? 

Player	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	ANY/A
Ryan Fitzpatrick	348	516	67.4%	5424	44	20	15.6	339	114.4	28	9.66
Mitch Trubisky	371	563	65.9%	4251	35	16	11.5	266	97.1	37	6.62

Not only do I hate raw stats but I hate them even more whenever anyone uses this type of an argument for any player. I mean if it's for only a few projected games or so then fine, but not when there's still over half of the season to go.

For one, now do this for the rest of NFL and see what you get and where Trubisky would rank among them? (That was rhetorical question. I've already done it for it you so don't bother )

Out of 40 QB's, he would still finish 20th in yards, 8th in passing TD's, T-23rd most INT, T-17th in Y/C, 18th in YPG, 15th in QBR and 16th in ANY/A.

Two, if you're going extrapolate his rushing numbers then you would have to do the same with all of his turnovers, including his lost fumbles. This would mean 8 total fumbles and another 5 turnovers, which would put his total projected turnovers at 21.

Sure the flashy yards, QBR, etc all look great on a stats sheet but none of it really means much without a ring--just ask Rivers--and in todays NFL you're not going to ever win a SB with your QB turning the ball over 20+ times. 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

53 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

To play devils advocate isn’t that what we said about Cutler?

^^THIS!

Real quick, out of our 3 wins this year, how many of them have came on a great play made by Mitch late in the game????

I'll wait....

That's that killer instinct that doesn't show up on a stat sheet and can't be taught. You either have it or you don't and so far Mitch hasn't shown it. Granted it's not all on him but still.

[Nads786]

2 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

^^THIS!

Real quick, out of our 3 wins this year, how many of them have came on a great play made by Mitch late in the game????

I'll wait....

That's that killer instinct that doesn't show up on a stat sheet and can't be taught. You either have it or you don't and so far Mitch hasn't shown it. Granted it's not all on him but still.

-Dolphins game 

-Seattle game 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, Nads786 said:

-Dolphins game 

-Seattle game 

Seattle? Not even close and we lost the Dolphins game. 

[51to54]

13 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

^^THIS!

Real quick, out of our 3 wins this year, how many of them have came on a great play made by Mitch late in the game????

I'll wait....

That's that killer instinct that doesn't show up on a stat sheet and can't be taught. You either have it or you don't and so far Mitch hasn't shown it. Granted it's not all on him but still.

While it's largely due to frustration with the ups and downs of this team, I said on the New England thread that this Bears' team finally has an identity, a team that finds a way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

Mitch Cutler, eh, Trubisky does have young and early career going for him as he still has time to develop, but you'd like to be able to bank on some of his best traits like accuracy. His accuracy seems to come and go in major swings. This should be the exception and not the rule. I'm starting to fear and in a bigger way each bad game that he can't play effective ball when pressured and his whole game falls apart. Now pressure has negative impacts to virtually all QB's, especially on occasional games, but the good ones can make you pay for it more than the benefit of the pressure and they maintain their great talents or abilities. Mitch might be able to 'learn' his way out of poor pressure re-action or he might be another QB who only plays well when he has a great Oline in front of him, a great hot read offense, and against defenses that aren't good at pressure.

[JAF-N72EX]

The one thing I do wanna start taking a closer look and something I don't see being mentioned is whether or not his targets are actually getting any separation at a high enough rate. 

This is something I haven't focused too much on.  

[JAF-N72EX]

8 minutes ago, 51to54 said:

While it's largely due to frustration with the ups and downs of this team, I said on the New England thread that this Bears' team finally has an identity, a team that finds a way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

Mitch Cutler, eh, Trubisky does have young and early career going for him as he still has time to develop, but you'd like to be able to bank on some of his best traits like accuracy. His accuracy seems to come and go in major swings. This should be the exception and not the rule. I'm starting to fear and in a bigger way each bad game that he can't play effective ball when pressured and his whole game falls apart. Now pressure has negative impacts to virtually all QB's, especially on occasional games, but the good ones can make you pay for it more than the benefit of the pressure and they maintain their great talents or abilities. Mitch might be able to 'learn' his way out of poor pressure re-action or he might be another QB who only plays well when he has a great Oline in front of him, a great hot read offense, and against defenses that aren't good at pressure.

You and I are on the same page then because this is what I'm seeing as well. 

And to be clear, in the first few games when he struggled all I was asking for was for him to show progression and since then he has shown that much--overall. But like you alluded to, he still doesn't know what to do when his blocking breaks down. yesterday there was one play when he was being rushed, he took off to his right side and I saw him turn his head toward the rushing defender instead of keeping his eyes downfield.

True QB's simply do not make those kind of mistakes. They keep thier eyes downfield at all times.

[Ty21]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

We said that about Cutler 48 games into his career.. then 66.. then 82.. and so on. He got a bunch of chances (and honestly I don’t think he was horrible; if he stays healthy in 2010 and 2011, I truly think he gets 1 ring).

I was a Cutler fan, but Trubisky has charisma, athleticism and leadership that Cutler never had. I’d go as far to say Trubisky’s work ethic is superior (I used to have a friend who worked for the Bears who said Cutler’s was so underrated & that he spent a ton of time at HH so this isn’t a knock on Jay) but from what I understand, Mitch is ALWAYS there. Football is the most important thing to Trubisky, and if he fails, it won’t be due to effort. His will to be great is other-worldly like.

Like someone else mentioned, Trubisky has higher highs and higher lows.

I don’t want to say it’s night and day, but it’s close to it and it’s WAY too early to compare the two. Our favorite NFL team has a 24 year old, exciting, mobile, and likeable QB and we’re comparing him to a turnover machine. Be excited, not pessimistic. Let it play out. He has every tool.

Never heard anyone complain about Cutlers leadership outside of retard football fans that don’t know what they’re talking about. Everyone that actually played with him generally loved playing with him. 

[Sugashane]

24 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

So you would be happy with Ryan Fitzpatrick too? 

 

 

Player	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	ANY/A
Ryan Fitzpatrick	348	516	67.4%	5424	44	20	15.6	339	114.4	28	9.66
Mitch Trubisky	371	563	65.9%	4251	35	16	11.5	266	97.1	37	6.62

Not only do I hate raw stats but I hate them even more whenever anyone uses this type of an argument for any player. I mean if it's for only a few projected games or so then fine, but not when there's still over half of the season to go.

For one, now do this for the rest of NFL and see what you get and where Trubisky would rank among them? (That was rhetorical question. I've already done it for it you so don't bother )

Out of 40 QB's, he would still finish 20th in yards, 8th in passing TD's, T-23rd most INT, T-17th in Y/C, 18th in YPG, 15th in QBR and 16th in ANY/A.

Two, if you're going extrapolate his rushing numbers then you would have to do the same with all of his turnovers, including his lost fumbles. This would mean 8 total fumbles and another 5 turnovers, which would put his total projected turnovers at 21.

Sure the flashy yards, QBR, etc all look great on a stats sheet but none of it really means much without a ring--just ask Rivers--and in todays NFL you're not going to ever win a SB with your QB turning the ball over 20+ times. 

 

If he could maintain that obviously. But Fitz has over 100 NFL starts showing he sucks.  lol

I mentioned how there were various things that skewed the outcome too. In no way did I conclude his stats would actually be near those.

I right now lack faith in Nagy getting the running game going. So yes, I would be happy to get this stats at this level, turnovers included. Nagy has shown the offense is completely dependent on him so far. With that level of production Fangio would look foolish if he couldn't get the defense performing well enough to win, well, keep looking foolish.

I have to disagree about the last comment, wholeheartedly. We aren't winning the Super Bowl this year. Nagy, Fangio, and the players aren't getting us there this year regardless of the scenario. So I'm not even thinking on that. This year is about seeing Tru's development. I want to see he can sustain success in the passing game this year, and I think Nagy will continue playing the dangerous risk for an explosive offense. He has seen Tru throw into a lot of deep throws and forced a lot of balls but his playcalling isn't showing he wants to reel it in. Maybe he will but I have no reason to believe it so far. We are giving up a lot of points right now and will have to win shootouts until the D wakes up and performs.

Next year we should be looked at as a team ready for a deep playoff run, this year we haven't shown to be consistent enough to make the playoffs. A lot of football left, but we have only had 1 good game of football. Every other game had major ups and downs, all were very incomplete games.

 

31 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Seattle? Not even close and we lost the Dolphins game. 

He put us in a winnable spot and Parkey missed it. If Parkey makes the kick do you still take it away from him?

[JAF-N72EX]

7 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

If he could maintain that obviously. But Fitz has over 100 NFL starts showing he sucks.  lol

I mentioned how there were various things that skewed the outcome too. In no way did I conclude his stats would actually be near those.

I know you didn't mean that, I was just pointing out how useless it really is to look at things in that fashion is all.

8 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I right now lack faith in Nagy getting the running game going. So yes, I would be happy to get this stats at this level, turnovers included. Nagy has shown the offense is completely dependent on him so far. With that level of production Fangio would look foolish if he couldn't get the defense performing well enough to win, well, keep looking foolish.

This is fair point. If we're not going to run the ball then Mitch has a chance to reach those projected numbers you pointed too. 

And yes, I agree 100%, Nagy needs to stop with the passing on every play and IMO (something I have preaching about) starts with slowing down with the shotgun formation which opens up the playbook more for run game.

13 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I have to disagree about the last comment, wholeheartedly. We aren't winning the Super Bowl this year. Nagy, Fangio, and the players aren't getting us there this year regardless of the scenario. So I'm not even thinking on that. This year is about seeing Tru's development. I want to see he can sustain success in the passing game this year, and I think Nagy will continue playing the dangerous risk for an explosive offense. He has seen Tru throw into a lot of deep throws and forced a lot of balls but his playcalling isn't showing he wants to reel it in. Maybe he will but I have no reason to believe it so far. We are giving up a lot of points right now and will have to win shootouts until the D wakes up and performs.

Next year we should be looked at as a team ready for a deep playoff run, this year we haven't shown to be consistent enough to make the playoffs. A lot of football left, but we have only had 1 good game of football. Every other game had major ups and downs, all were very incomplete games.

I think you may have mis-understood me here. In no way do expect us to win the SB this year, nor have I ever had that thought in mind. I was only simply saying that turning the ball over 20+ times this season doesn't bode well for a QB who would then be entering his 3rd year.

I agree the majority of your post here. Like I said above, all I want(ed) to see from Mitch this year was to show progression, beings that this is basically his rookie year, and he has shown it more and more through each game but there are still some mistakes that he is making that have me a little worried (i.e accuracy, pocket presence). And it's not as if I am expecting him to be perfect and not make those type of mistakes as a rookie.....it's the high frequency of those mistakes that scare me. 

26 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Seattle? Not even close and we lost the Dolphins game. 

He put us in a winnable spot and Parkey missed it. If Parkey makes the kick do you still take it away from him?

Howard and a penalty put us in that position, not Mitch. Let's not overstate it. Besides it the defense that kept us in that entire game.

[Sugashane]

28 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I know you didn't mean that, I was just pointing out how useless it really is to look at things in that fashion is all.

This is fair point. If we're not going to run the ball then Mitch has a chance to reach those projected numbers you pointed too. 

And yes, I agree 100%, Nagy needs to stop with the passing on every play and IMO (something I have preaching about) starts with slowing down with the shotgun formation which opens up the playbook more for run game.

I think you may have mis-understood me here. In no way do expect us to win the SB this year, nor have I ever had that thought in mind. I was only simply saying that turning the ball over 20+ times this season doesn't bode well for a QB who would then be entering his 3rd year.

I agree the majority of your post here. Like I said above, all I want(ed) to see from Mitch this year was to show progression, beings that this is basically his rookie year, and he has shown it more and more through each game but there are still some mistakes that he is making that have me a little worried (i.e accuracy, pocket presence). And it's not as if I am expecting him to be perfect and not make those type of mistakes as a rookie.....it's the high frequency of those mistakes that scare me. 

Howard and a penalty put us in that position, not Mitch. Let's not overstate it. Besides it the defense that kept us in that entire game.

Yep, it seems we were definitely on different wavelengths. General comment went over my head completely.

It is useless honestly, but I just like to get an early comparison to other QB's past years. I usually do it by quarters and half seasons, then look at the teams faced to see if there are any irregular situations (like a 6 TD performance). I like to take the top and bottom two games out of the equation and then divide to see what the median of play seemed to be.Why do I do it? Hell IDK. Its often 2 am when I do it. hahaha

Progression is going to be slower in some facets. He has thrown less times in college and in pro games combined than either Watson or Mahomes in college alone. He is just behind the ball there, but to me that means he should not have as hard of a time breaking the bad habits you mention. That is just my theory though.

I was talking about the MIA game. There was nothing the defense did correctly there in the second half. With even an Arena league-level of tackling we should have won that game easy. I can't begrudge Tru for not winning when he put up 28 points and still losing. It sucked going into halftime with zero but 28 points should have been more than enough to win. Our safeties made Wilson look like Jerry Rice with the YAC he compiled.

[JAF-N72EX]

I hear ya. Like I said in another post, I wanna start looking at how often his targets are really get open as well. Robinson, in particular, was brought in to help with this aspect.

Not to mention, I don't know if it's just me, but I'm not seeing alot of broken tackles from ANYONE on this offense.

[Sugashane]

19 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I hear ya. Like I said in another post, I wanna start looking at how often his targets are really get open as well. Robinson, in particular, was brought in to help with this aspect.

Not to mention, I don't know if it's just me, but I'm not seeing alot of broken tackles from ANYONE on this offense.

 

No, you're right. Not a damn person is breaking tackles it seems. Tru had more people miss on one of those runs than about anyone had in a single game this year. I pointed out early in the season that Nagy was being super conservative and likely hoping to get a ton of YAC, but this personnel just wasn't getting it. It seems he realized it and got more aggressive, but overshot it a bit. Howard will get a few but he is getting hit in the backfield with regularity it seems, so he ccan't even get a head of steam to create an advantageous angle.