SpeightTheVillain Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I am squarely for keeping Mac. Especially if this season plays out like I expect. However, if Murphy does fire him, those of you advocating for a coach from college....why? When was the last time a college coach, with no NFL head coaching experience was successful? Saban? Bombed. Petrino? Bombed. I would much rather take a guy from the league. But clearly Mac is the best option and would get hired immediately by another team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, Pugger said: You make it sound like winning in this league is easy. Frankly, there isn't a lot separating the best teams and the worst. McCarthy is right - they came back and found a way to win when things weren't going well after that disaster in Detroit = a huge step. Sheesh... You can gain as momentum from a game like that than you can beating them by 21. Hell I truly think it was better for them mentally. Now that doesn't fix holes in the roster now either though. But acting like that win doesn't do any good because you didn't destroy them? Not sure I agree. IDK if I said this here yet but I'm dead *** curious to see him leave and how he does somewhere else. I think the haters might be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Norm said: You can gain as momentum from a game like that than you can beating them by 21. Hell I truly think it was better for them mentally. Now that doesn't fix holes in the roster now either though. But acting like that win doesn't do any good because you didn't destroy them? Not sure I agree. IDK if I said this here yet but I'm dead *** curious to see him leave and how he does somewhere else. I think the haters might be surprised. Exactly. You don't luck into a win percentage that high. People need to realize that elite QB play doesn't guarantee success. Sure Rodgers is a huge part of it, but so is Mac. This team has never folded under pressure with McCarthy as the head coach and always bounces back in the long run. Scheme is important, so is play-calling, but the culture in GB gets consistently overlooked and that comes directly from McCarthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheNorth Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Norm said: You can gain as momentum from a game like that than you can beating them by 21. Hell I truly think it was better for them mentally. Now that doesn't fix holes in the roster now either though. But acting like that win doesn't do any good because you didn't destroy them? Not sure I agree. IDK if I said this here yet but I'm dead *** curious to see him leave and how he does somewhere else. I think the haters might be surprised. I am an advocate for a change in Head Coach at the end of the season (my mind can always be changed). That doesn't mean I don't think he's a solid Head Coach. McCarthy, as he has said before, is a highly successful Head Coach. I don't think that would change with a different team, but I do think his voice has grown stale with the Packers. As much as I think the Packers would be better off moving in a new direction, I also think McCarthy would be better off. Sometimes a coaching change can benefit both parties (Andy Reid going to Chiefs from Eagles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheNorth Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said: Exactly. You don't luck into a win percentage that high. People need to realize that elite QB play doesn't guarantee success. Sure Rodgers is a huge part of it, but so is Mac. This team has never folded under pressure with McCarthy as the head coach and always bounces back in the long run. Scheme is important, so is play-calling, but the culture in GB gets consistently overlooked and that comes directly from McCarthy. Yikes.....Seattle games comes to mind immediately. But all good coaches have bad games. Not trying to say the 1 instance where they did fold proves anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, packfanfb said: You don't actually believe or want this. You have to let Rodgers play with a new coach before he's done. This is madness. That was sarcasm, you can relax. I don't want to lock McCarthy up long term right now. I'm more than comfortable letting him ride season to season. Even if you give him a 2 year deal, this Packers organization is not cash strapped. If you have to pay a year of McCarthy's salary to make him leave, you don't lose a wink of sleep over it. I'm not sure you need to let Rodgers play with a new coach, though. I don't think McCarthy is Jeff Fisher who was visibly out of date both schematically and in approach. Gute and Murphy need to evaluate the temperature of this team. If there's a lack of buy in, you move on. I'll take the same stance with McCarthy that I did with Capers in the few years before he was fired. You can be a good coach and not be a good coach for a team. There's a ton of ambiguity in coaching, from overall talent level to injuries, to the flat out bounce of the ball luck that permeates everything in the sport. We're seeing right now some of the growing pains of changing coaches on the defensive side of the ball. Daniels and Clay just aren't good fits for this D and it's showing in their production. There's a good chance your have a similar issue on the offensive side of the ball if you swap out McCarthy. Whether it's worth that potential short term step back for a potential long term game is a tough decision. As of now, the only real issue I have with McCarthy is our initial script has been horrifically unproductive and that looked better last week. This team is a few unforced errors from being in a really good spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, KingOfTheNorth said: Yikes.....Seattle games comes to mind immediately. But all good coaches have bad games. Not trying to say the 1 instance where they did fold proves anything. Yeah I'm not saying game to game everything goes to plan. Or they never blow leads. I just mean institutionally. The next season they were an OT away from the championship game again. They legitimately think they should win every game. Every team says that but how many to a man actually believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, Norm said: You can gain as momentum from a game like that than you can beating them by 21. Hell I truly think it was better for them mentally. Now that doesn't fix holes in the roster now either though. But acting like that win doesn't do any good because you didn't destroy them? Not sure I agree. IDK if I said this here yet but I'm dead *** curious to see him leave and how he does somewhere else. I think the haters might be surprised. I'm patiently waiting for this day too. I think he'll Bomb with a capital B. It'll be interesting to see who is right, assuming it ever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, packfanfb said: I'm patiently waiting for this day too. I think he'll Bomb with a capital B. It'll be interesting to see who is right, assuming it ever happens. I guess I'm just kinda confused by this take. It's not like he wasn't a very successful (especially relative to the talent he had) offensive coordinator with New Orleans before coming to GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I guess I'm just kinda confused by this take. It's not like he wasn't a very successful (especially relative to the talent he had) offensive coordinator with New Orleans before coming to GB. That's like saying McDaniels was/will be a good head coach because he's been an offensive savant for NE for years. They are two different things. Moreover, you have the "stale" element to consider. McCarthy's successes as a coordinator in early 2000s don't mean much in 2018 unless he's evolving and changing, something we constantly complain about not happening year after year. McCarthy has lasted this long in GB for two reasons: (1) he's had Favre/Rodgers, the latter especially of which automatically translates into a lot of W's during the regular season, which in an of itself keeps a coach around most of the time; and (2) he's coaching in GB -- one of the most tolerant and patient organizations to work for especially under the Murphy/Thompson leadership. I mean, you have a leadership that basically guarantees your job assuming you win 10 games, win the division and/or make the playoffs most years --- and you have the player at the position in the NFL who pretty much guarantees one or more of those things for you every year he's on the field. Pretty good job to have, right? If anything, the most credit I do give McCarthy is that he's had to coach a sub-par overall roster for several of those years because our GM didn't do his job after the draft ended. Still, that's more of a testament to the greatest of Rodgers than MM in my eye. Remember John Fox in Denver? Had a pretty damn good year with Manning (I forget the exact year) but fell short of the SB so Elway canned his *** and brought in Kubiak to go win a SB. You'd never get that type of reaction in GB (whether you think that's a good or bad thing). Point is, McCarthy should be on the hot seat and should have been on it a long time ago. He hasn't been because he coaches in Green Bay. It's a very comfortable job to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddfather Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, packfanfb said: That's like saying McDaniels was/will be a good head coach because he's been an offensive savant for NE for years. They are two different things. Moreover, you have the "stale" element to consider. McCarthy's successes as a coordinator in early 2000s don't mean much in 2018 unless he's evolving and changing, something we constantly complain about not happening year after year. McCarthy has lasted this long in GB for two reasons: (1) he's had Favre/Rodgers, the latter especially of which automatically translates into a lot of W's during the regular season, which in an of itself keeps a coach around most of the time; and (2) he's coaching in GB -- one of the most tolerant and patient organizations to work for especially under the Murphy/Thompson leadership. I mean, you have a leadership that basically guarantees your job assuming you win 10 games, win the division and/or make the playoffs most years --- and you have the player at the position in the NFL who pretty much guarantees one or more of those things for you every year he's on the field. Pretty good job to have, right? If anything, the most credit I do give McCarthy is that he's had to coach a sub-par overall roster for several of those years because our GM didn't do his job after the draft ended. Still, that's more of a testament to the greatest of Rodgers than MM in my eye. Remember John Fox in Denver? Had a pretty damn good year with Manning (I forget the exact year) but fell short of the SB so Elway canned his *** and brought in Kubiak to go win a SB. You'd never get that type of reaction in GB (whether you think that's a good or bad thing). Point is, McCarthy should be on the hot seat and should have been on it a long time ago. He hasn't been because he coaches in Green Bay. It's a very comfortable job to have. There are two problems that I take with your statement, the first of which is that you write off any success McCarthy can have because of Rodgers. How can a discussion of his merits be had if any positive merits are summarily dismissed because, "Rodgers is his QB"? It's not like Rodgers sprung out of the ground as an NFL MVP. You watch 2006 Aaron Rodgers and 2012 Aaron Rodgers and it's like a different guy. Obviously much of that is due to Rodgers himself, but a part of that is coaching as well. While I agree that this is a patient organization, I think this is also one of the fanbases with the highest expectations due to much if the success that occurred under McCarthy. Maybe I'm just too young but I don't remember anybody wanting to run Holmgren out of town. We've had three discussion on roster and team building a thousand times. You know where I stand there, no use having that conversation in this thread for the 48th time. I really think Fox would have also won that super bowl. I think the Fox to Kubiak switch was the least important part in building that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, KingOfTheNorth said: I am an advocate for a change in Head Coach at the end of the season (my mind can always be changed). That doesn't mean I don't think he's a solid Head Coach. McCarthy, as he has said before, is a highly successful Head Coach. I don't think that would change with a different team, but I do think his voice has grown stale with the Packers. As much as I think the Packers would be better off moving in a new direction, I also think McCarthy would be better off. Sometimes a coaching change can benefit both parties (Andy Reid going to Chiefs from Eagles). Yeah this is where I'm at with it as well. I'd be a little scared moving on to the next guy but happy we're trying. I really think it's best for both sides now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Norm said: Yeah this is where I'm at with it as well. I'd be a little scared moving on to the next guy but happy we're trying. I really think it's best for both sides now. I'm with you Norm. I've been saying for a while that Mac is a good head coach, that he can certainly take some credit for mentoring Rodgers' career along. I also think that at times, Rodgers was helping to make Mac a better coach. I'm just not so sure that the two are helping one another be the best version of themselves at this moment, and "possibly for that reason", I'm willing to let Mac walk at the end of the season. Not because he's a bad coach, or that he can't control Rodgers - for the simple fact that it just might be time for those two to part ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakeshoppe Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, packfanfb said: You don't actually believe or want this. You have to let Rodgers play with a new coach before he's done. This is madness. Madness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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