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2019 NFL Draft - Interior Defensive Line

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On 10/26/2018 at 11:36 AM, ClutchDJ said:

I don’t think it would be foolish at all. He’s been projected as the 3rd best DL behind Bosa & Oliver the last couple of weeks now. There’s actually a chance he could get drafted over Oliver due to size.

If people don't learn from their mistakes with Aaron Donald, they deserve to be fired.

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On 10/29/2018 at 2:09 PM, CWood21 said:

If people don't learn from their mistakes with Aaron Donald, they deserve to be fired.

I get the Donald-Oliver comp, but I dont think Oliver has the power Donald does.  

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2 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

I get the Donald-Oliver comp, but I dont think Oliver has the power Donald does.  

Or the college production, especially in terms of straight sacks.  Both played on weak defensive lines however which makes the production even harder to do.  Donald's senior year was insane, 28 TFLs and 11.5 sacks.  

 

Aaron Donald 181 tackles, 66 TFL and 29.5 Sacks, 10 passes deflected and 6 Forced fumbles in 4 years.  In three years if taking out senior year he had 37.5 TFL and 18.5 sacks but obviously was more of a late bloomer so taking out that senior year is not really fair.

 

Ed Oliver 189 tackles, 52 TFL and 13.5 sacks so far as a junior.  Way more production as a tackler but does not get home as often at the QB

 

 

 

Also Ed Oliver is what 6-3 290, Aaron Donald at times played at 270 in college if not most of the time was around that or 275.  He was crazy productive at that weight and was obviously not the #1 high school recruit in the nation like many had Oliver.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Ed Oliver 189 tackles, 52 TFL and 13.5 sacks so far as a junior.  Way more production as a tackler but does not get home as often at the QB

Also Ed Oliver is what 6-3 290, Aaron Donald at times played at 270 in college if not most of the time was around that or 275.  He was crazy productive at that weight and was obviously not the #1 high school recruit in the nation like many had Oliver.  

You're absolutely right about the lack of production from a pass rushing standpoint with Oliver, but a MAJOR reason for that is the scheme he plays in. He's still shown the skillset to shed blocks and get to the QB. Dude's an athletic freak.

However, as far as Oliver's size, all indications point to him coming in at around 6'1" 270 in February. Early on, he's going to flash, but he's been able to dominate guys based on sheer ability, rather than refined pass rushing technique. I think this is obviously the aspect of the game that can be polished, and the upside is just off the charts. 

Ed Oliver deserves consideration for the #1 pick.

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6 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

You're absolutely right about the lack of production from a pass rushing standpoint with Oliver, but a MAJOR reason for that is the scheme he plays in. He's still shown the skillset to shed blocks and get to the QB. Dude's an athletic freak.

However, as far as Oliver's size, all indications point to him coming in at around 6'1" 270 in February. Early on, he's going to flash, but he's been able to dominate guys based on sheer ability, rather than refined pass rushing technique. I think this is obviously the aspect of the game that can be polished, and the upside is just off the charts. 

Ed Oliver deserves consideration for the #1 pick.

I agree, would be a big surprise if he was not the #1 pick overall to be quite honest.  But you think he will come in at 270?  Everything I look at says he is 290 now and if so and he can move like that at that weight, why change your weight?  Unless everything listed is wrong and he is not 290+ right now.  The attention he gets consistently might be why he cannot get home at the QB, he is doubled constantly. 

 

Pitt had a few ok defensive backs and linebackers when Donald played but it was not like they had this world beater defense or something.  Played with Ejuan Price but that was about it late in his career in terms of other talented DLs on that roster.   I am not sure scheme has much to do with Donald getting more sacks consistently, I think he is just a little bit quicker off the ball or more people consistently underestimated him at that level, where Oliver gets none of that.  If anything with Houston others guys are successful because they pay so much attention to Oliver and just allow other guys to be freed up more and they are fine with it.  

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

I agree, would be a big surprise if he was not the #1 pick overall to be quite honest.  But you think he will come in at 270?  Everything I look at says he is 290 now and if so and he can move like that at that weight, why change your weight?  Unless everything listed is wrong and he is not 290+ right now.  The attention he gets consistently might be why he cannot get home at the QB, he is doubled constantly. 

Pitt had a few ok defensive backs and linebackers when Donald played but it was not like they had this world beater defense or something.  Played with Ejuan Price but that was about it late in his career in terms of other talented DLs on that roster.   I am not sure scheme has much to do with Donald getting more sacks consistently, I think he is just a little bit quicker off the ball or more people consistently underestimated him at that level, where Oliver gets none of that.  If anything with Houston others guys are successful because they pay so much attention to Oliver and just allow other guys to be freed up more and they are fine with it.  

I've heard and read the work of some draft analysts who have seen him up close. The consensus seems to be that his listed measurables are exaggerated. I think he could bulk up more and hit that 290 mark, but he looks to be in great shape, so much so that 290 is hard to believe.

And with scheme, I think @MSURacerDT55 said it perfectly, something along the lines of Oliver playing in a 2-gap scheme, while Donald played in a 1-gap scheme. So Oliver's run defense has been magnified, but he doesn't have many opportunities to rush the QB.

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1 hour ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

I've heard and read the work of some draft analysts who have seen him up close. The consensus seems to be that his listed measurables are exaggerated. I think he could bulk up more and hit that 290 mark, but he looks to be in great shape, so much so that 290 is hard to believe.

And with scheme, I think @MSURacerDT55 said it perfectly, something along the lines of Oliver playing in a 2-gap scheme, while Donald played in a 1-gap scheme. So Oliver's run defense has been magnified, but he doesn't have many opportunities to rush the QB.

Yeah Oliver does play in that 3/4 NT spot which is odd, but they are multiple with that and move backers down at times and have a four man line at times.  Donald did play in a 4/3 so that is true there is a difference there.  As well as the offenses played now focus on getting the ball out quickly so is harder to get to the QB anyway.  Then again Houston's schedule this year is not exactly murders row.  They do not play a lot of elite teams so one would think he would be more productive getting to the QB but yeah not a huge issue.  

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Potential injuries aside, could anyone convince me that Quinnen Williams is not the second best DT in this draft class?

I got someone in the Browns forum saying he's not as elite as Simmons or Derrick Brown and I'm scrambling to find out wtf he's talking about.

I just don't see what he's missing that the other names have.

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24 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Potential injuries aside, could anyone convince me that Quinnen Williams is not the second best DT in this draft class?

I got someone in the Browns forum saying he's not as elite as Simmons or Derrick Brown and I'm scrambling to find out wtf he's talking about.

I just don't see what he's missing that the other names have.

After how he played against LSU if he keeps even half of that production up he will for sure be the 2nd best DT in the class and a top 10 if not top 5 selection.  Was wildly impressive in that game.

 

It is hard to believe because the DL class is as good as I have ever seen before the year and just keeps getting better.  Easily the best DL group in arguably 20 years plus.  And you take and add on a guy like Williams with the studs already there.  Yeah it is crazy, especially considering Williams has in a way come out of nowhere to dominate at this crazy high level and is part of a stellar Bama front seven.  Still would not be surprised to see Raekwon Davis still become an elite NFL player and arguably better than Wililams if he can become a little more fundamentally sound.  Williams is doing currently what Davis did last year to teams unfamiliar with him, and that kind of pass rush potential they usually do not have at that NT spot that Williams is providing.  There DL with those three all can be standout pass rushers and get penetration with just those three alone, which is rare for them or anyone in a 3/4 defense.   They are not just run stoppers only that is for sure.  

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11 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

So, Question? Shouldn't there be legit #1 pick talk for Williams?

Will see how he finishes off the season against Miss State, Auburn and Georgia.  LSU does not have a great interior OL and that showed in that game.  No doubt potential top 3 pick and if Bosa seems still injured and cannot work out he could be #2.  I still would take Ed Oliver over him but he is right up there if he keeps playing like he did against LSU.  That was a great game by him, but again is surrounded by arguably the best DL in the Saban era at Alabama in terms of three starters, with two book end linebackers in Jennings and Miller who have stayed healthy all year and provide good pressure. There is a lot around him to help him be so successful and not doubled all game long.  Also helps they are in pass rush situations a majority of the game, might be different if a team can run on them a little and he can just T off against the pass.  Crazy impressive play by him though no doubt.

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Williams is having a phenomenal year especially considering he’s manning the NT.. but I think I’d rather have Raekwon Davis at a discount. 

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5 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

So, Question? Shouldn't there be legit #1 pick talk for Williams?

Absolutely. He's the hottest name in college football right now in regards to draft buzz. Just when you think he can't get any better, he goes out and tops his performance. Whether they're accurate or not, the discussions of Quinnen over Oliver are picking up more steam every week. I've already seen two mocks today from people I respect, both of which have Ed Oliver falling below Williams.

I also think it's a bit of a "what have you done for me lately" type of situation. With Bosa being out for the year, he's not able to do anything that will recapture people's attention. And Oliver, being at Houston, isn't exactly playing in a number of primetime games.

So Quinnen has that advantage too, he's going to continue to be in the spotlight for the majority or the season's remainder. If he continues to put up even half the highlights he did against LSU each week, the conversation is only going to continue to escalate.

1 hour ago, One Punch Man said:

Williams is having a phenomenal year especially considering he’s manning the NT.. but I think I’d rather have Raekwon Davis at a discount. 

Depends. Perhaps from the perspective of trading up and giving away assets for Quinnen, sure. I think that's fair. But if you're on the clock at, say, pick 5, and Quinnen is staring you in the face, it would be awfully hard to turn that away, trade down, and opt for Davis instead. 

I mean, there's a significant difference in talent, IMO. But I think circumstances play a big role in your statement.

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On 10/29/2018 at 11:11 AM, MSURacerDT55 said:

That would be foolish IMO

its like aaron donald vs Gerald McCoy.  either way u getting an elite talent

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