Let's talk about Taysom Hill and gadget players

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Dome said:

Not missing the forest. I acknowledged it, agreed with your point, and then showed you where you need to do some groundskeeping.

Then why are we still arguing it? Why is a singular phrase in a post that wasn't intended to be the point of the post elicit a response to begin with, if you agree with my point?

Ok, instead of "considerably better production" let's go with "considerably better player". Does that change anything?

[Dome]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Hill plays all those positions because he's not good enough at any one of them to actually specialize there. He's just a special teamer who can do a little bit of everything well enough to be interesting

I think that’s about where most people have him pegged though. 

He’s playing more and more each week. Up to almost 40% of our offensive snaps this week IIRC. Haven’t looked over snap counts in a while though, missed the Redskins game 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

I think that’s about where most people have him pegged though. 

He’s playing more and more each week. Up to almost 40% of our offensive snaps this week IIRC. Haven’t looked over snap counts in a while though, missed the Redskins game 

see my previous post on the last page He was at 37% last game.

[Dome]

Just now, ET80 said:

Then why are we still arguing it? Why is a singular phrase in a post that wasn't intended to be the point of the post elicit a response to begin with, if you agree with my point?

Houston is the best city in America (just imagine you believe this even if you don’t)

Why? because everyone there is so dumb and ugly it makes even an average person feel incredible about themselves. 

You might agree with my main point but do you agree with my reasoning or how I got there? Just because your main point was right doesn’t mean the supporting arguments were good and I wanted to point that out, since we’re here to talk about football I figured it was fair game.

[Dome]

I think it’s time to move on @ET80. We’re not even arguing, just fighting lol.

pretty sure we’re on the same page, just mad about why were each on the same page 

<3 u

[MookieMonstah]

43 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Hill plays all those positions because he's not good enough at any one of them to actually specialize there. He's just a special teamer who can do a little bit of everything well enough to be interesting but not well enough to actually get significant PT. There have been plenty of NFL skill players who were QBs in the past. Teams don't use them like the Saints use Hill because those players are good enough at one position to stick there. I guess we can make Hill an interesting footnote, but he's not doing anything significant. Like I said, it's not worth how riled up some of y'all are getting lol.

EDIT: To make it clear, @Dome, I'm not accusing you of getting riled up.

No ones riled up? He’s a really good weapon, who’s very difficult to stop right now even in only a handful of plays a game.

Hes a great gadget player. That’s all anyone’s saying, why is that so hard to admit? I’m sure he’d be getting a lot more snaps at QB if they didn’t have this dude Drew Brees.

Edited October 23, 2018 by MookieMonstah

[jrry32]

7 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

No ones riled up? He’s a really good weapon, who’s very difficult to stop right now even in only a handful of plays a game.

Hes a great gadget player. That’s all anyone’s saying, why is that so hard to admit? I’m sure he’d be getting a lot more snaps at QB if they didn’t have this dude Drew Brees.

He's not a really good weapon. He's not a great gadget player. It's "hard to admit" because it's not true. The only reason people are getting "excited" or "riled up" is because Hill can kind of play QB. It's odd to see a QB playing so many different positions. Like I said, it's interesting, but it's no big deal.

46 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Against the Ravens, Taysom Hill played 37% offensive snaps and 83% of ST's snaps. Over the past 3 games he's been over 20% offensive snaps and throughout the entire year he's been over 70% of ST's snaps (mostly in the 80% range). He's definitely seeing significant PT throughout the game as of late.

Getting a ton of STs snaps is what bottom-of-the-roster types do. They're on the roster to play special teams. That isn't inconsistent with my point. On the season, he's averaging 3 carries per game and has a grand total of 1 reception. He's also attempted 2 passes. Basically, in 6 games, he has 21 touches. That's 3.5 touches per game. He's not seeing significant PT. They're treating him like a #3 HB or a #2 TE.

[MookieMonstah]

6 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

He's not a really good weapon. He's not a great gadget player. It's "hard to admit" because it's not true. The only reason people are getting "excited" or "riled up" is because Hill can kind of play QB. It's odd to see a QB playing so many different positions. Like I said, it's interesting, but it's no big deal.

Getting a ton of STs snaps is what bottom-of-the-roster types do. They're on the roster to play special teams. That isn't inconsistent with my point. On the season, he's averaging 3 carries per game and has a grand total of 1 reception. He's also attempted 2 passes. Basically, in 6 games, he has 21 touches. That's 3.5 touches per game. He's not seeing significant PT. They're treating him like a #3 HB or a #2 TE.

If you don’t think Taysom adds more of a wrinkle in that offense than a #3 HB does than you don’t know football. He’s a weapon. 

[jrry32]

Just now, MookieMonstah said:

If you don’t think Taysom adds more of a wrinkle in that offense than a #3 HB does than you don’t know football. He’s a weapon. 

I'd rather have our #3 HB, John Kelly, than Taysom Hill. If Gurley goes down, Kelly adds more to our offense than Hill. I know a lot of football. Your weapon doesn't have a position.

[MookieMonstah]

12 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I'd rather have our #3 HB, John Kelly, than Taysom Hill. If Gurley goes down, Kelly adds more to our offense than Hill. I know a lot of football. Your weapon doesn't have a position.

Tough take man. HBs are a dime a dozen. Only one Taysom Hill, he ain’t my weapon either but I’d be alright if Big Bill got a chance to play around with him. 

[Dome]

49 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

They're treating him like a #3 HB or a #2 TE.

Has your #3 HB even touched the ball this year? Or taken a snap?

Show me a HB3 taking 37% of offensive snaps in any game where it wasn’t due to injury. Show me a HB 3 being asked to convert 3rd and 4th downs on his own on even a semi regular basis. 

I think you’re just looking at stats and not how he’s actuslly being used. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Dome

[MookieMonstah]

24 minutes ago, Dome said:

Has your #3 HB even touched the ball this year? Or taken a snap?

Show me a HB3 taking 37% of offensive snaps in any game where it wasn’t due to injury. Show me a HB 3 being asked to convert 3rd and 4th downs on his own on even a semi regular basis. 

I think you’re just looking at stats and not how he’s actuslly being used. 

This is 1000% correct. Taysom Hill is a weapon, end of story.

[jrry32]

15 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Tough take man. HBs are a dime a dozen. Only one Taysom Hill, he ain’t my weapon either but I’d be alright if Big Bill got a chance to play around with him. 

There was only one Tavon Austin. And the reality we found this year is that he limited our offense. We can do all the things we did with Austin, including the jet motion and jet sweeps, with actual WRs. The fact that Woods, Cooks, and Kupp run those effectively allows us to have three legitimate WRs on the field and still run those plays successfully. Would you rather have the ball in the hands of Taysom or Brees/Kamara? HBs might be dime a dozen, but they at least are good enough to have a position in the NFL. Hill isn't a good enough TE to play there full time. He's not a good enough QB to play there full time. He's not a good enough WR to play there full time. And he's not a good enough HB to play there full time.

1 minute ago, Dome said:

Has your #3 HB even touched the ball this year?

Nope. He's been inactive because we have better special teamers. But I imagine there are teams where the #3 HB is averaging 3.5 touches per game. I also believe if Kelly were not inactive, he'd be seeing around 2 or 3 touches per game.

[Dome]

Just now, jrry32 said:

Nope. He's been inactive because we have better special teamers. But I imagine there are teams where the #3 HB is averaging 3.5 touches per game. I also believe if Kelly were not inactive, he'd be seeing around 2 or 3 touches per game.

Why are you so hung up on touches? 

Show me a HB3 taking anywhere near the offensive snaps Hill is.

[MookieMonstah]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

There was only one Tavon Austin. And the reality we found this year is that he limited our offense. We can do all the things we did with Austin, including the jet motion and jet sweeps, with actual WRs. The fact that Woods, Cooks, and Kupp run those effectively allows us to have three legitimate WRs on the field and still run those plays successfully. Would you rather have the ball in the hands of Taysom or Brees/Kamara? HBs might be dime a dozen, but they at least are good enough to have a position in the NFL. Hill isn't a good enough TE to play there full time. He's not a good enough QB to play there full time. He's not a good enough WR to play there full time. And he's not a good enough HB to play there full time.

Nope. He's been inactive because we have better special teamers. But I imagine there are teams where the #3 HB is averaging 3.5 touches per game. I also believe if Kelly were not inactive, he'd be seeing around 2 or 3 touches per game.

Tavon Austin sucked. Taysom Hill doesnt. Found the first flaw in this argument.

Defenses hesitate when Taysom Hill is in the game, he runs a RPO but even if he doesn't do it often defenses know he's fully capable of delivering a good pass so you can't just sell out on the run either.

For a guy who self proclaims to know a lot of football, you're really just turning a blind eye to how good a weapon Taysom Hill has been for New Orleans.