How Many MVP's should Peyton have?

[King Joffrey]

Peyton Manning won league MVP's in 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009 & 2013, and is without doubt one of the best players and QBs ever.  I like many would argue he shouldn't have won all of those, and I'm sure there are some people out there that would point out he should have won other season like 2012 or maybe 2005.    

I'll break each of my picks down to explain why I agree or disagree with the selections

2003: Colts 12-4: 29 TD 10 INT 99 Passer rating with a 67 completion % (led league).   

Peyton won co MVP that season with Steve McNair, while Jamal Lewis in Baltimore received votes for going over 2000 yards on the ground.  This is a season where I can see why Peyton won MVP.  You could take it from him and give it to Lewis but it's not a bad choice imo.  I will say he deserved it.

2004: Colts go 12-4: 49 TD 10 INT 121 Passer rating 68 completion % (led league).

This is up there with Marino 84, Brady 07 and whatever other all time great QB seasons you have.  No shred of doubt here.  Michael Vick got a single 1st place vote to rob Peyton of unanimous MVP status.

2008: Colts go 12-4: 27 TD 12 INT 95 Passer rating 69 completion %

This is where I start to stray.  I understand 2008 didn't have a historic QB season or rushing season.  I won't mention other positions because they don't win MVPs, unfortunately unless you're LT.  I would have went with Rivers or Warner, who simply had better seasons (slightly) taking their teams to the playoffs.  I don't think the Warner pick is related to him going to the Super Bowl, he really had a good season with more TD's and a better passer rating and completion percentage on a team that nobody thought was going to make noise in 2008.

 

2009: Colts go 14-2 33 TD 16 INT 100 Passer rating 69 Completion %

This is the Colts are going to go undefeated season.  They started off undefeated multiple times in the Manning era, but this was the closest they came.  They chose to sit Peyton while they were 14-0 on the verge of 15-0 and he had a very good season so they awarded him the trophy.   I still would have picked Brees or Favre that year, as they head better statistical seasons and led their teams to 1st round BYE's

Brees 13-2 34 TD 11 INT 110 Passer rating 71 Completion percentage.  Brees led the league in TD's completion percentage and passer rating.  

Favre had 33 TD's 7 INT's 107 Passer rating and a 68 completion % on a new team.

I get why Peyton got votes as they Colts were in position to go undefeated but you could argue Rivers had a better season than him too.

 

2013 I'm not even going to bother posting stats or reasoning, as he should have won it unanimously.

 

 

In the end I think he should have 2003, 2004 & 2013 (3).

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Pretty much agree with you, although I don't necessarily think I'd flat out say he didn't deserve the 2009 MVP, very close between him, Brees and Favre. The 2008 MVP was definitely a case of him getting it by default, Rivers should have had it. 

[lancerman]

I'd say this 2004 and 2013 were his only strong ones where there was no argument against him. I know I'm going to get flack for this but Rodgers two MVP's and Brady's 3 MVP's everyone pretty much knew they were a lock for it well before the season ended and there's wasn't much debate. There was considerable debate around 03 by evidence that it was a co MVP, and 2008/2009 were weak MVP's and other people had real arguments over Manning. I don't think all MVP's are equal and I hold his 07 and 13 in much higher regard than the rest. 

[King Joffrey]

20 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Pretty much agree with you, although I don't necessarily think I'd flat out say he didn't deserve the 2009 MVP, very close between him, Brees and Favre. The 2008 MVP was definitely a case of him getting it by default, Rivers should have had it. 

I don't think he flat out shouldn't have won the award, I stated I understand why he got votes.  But yeah it was close.

[game3525]

The only really bad one is 2008 and that has more to do with the other candidates. Rivers and Brees had better years, but you aren't winning MVP if your team is 8-8. I used to think 2009 was bad, but the Colts started 14-0 and Peyton bailed them out of a lot of close games that year. Also for all the flack Peyton got for the 16 ints, Brees actually had more turnovers that year (11 picks and 6 lost fumbles).

Quote

I'd say this 2004 and 2013 were his only strong ones where there was no argument against him. I know I'm going to get flack for this but Rodgers two MVP's and Brady's 3 MVP's everyone pretty much knew they were a lock for it well before the season ended and there's wasn't much debate. There was considerable debate around 03 by evidence that it was a co MVP, and 2008/2009 were weak MVP's and other people had real arguments over Manning. I don't think all MVP's are equal and I hold his 07 and 13 in much higher regard than the rest. 

If you are going to knock Manning for 2008 and 2009 being weak, then you can pretty much do the same thing for Brady in 2010 and 2017. 2010 was a weaker year in terms of MVP candidates then 2009. In 2009, you had Brees, Favre, Rodgers, Rivers all playing at a high level leading playoff teams. In 2010, Favre hit a wall, Brees and Peyton had down years, Rodgers missed a couple games, Rivers team missed the playoffs. Brady's only real competition in 2010 by the end of the season was Vick, who would have never cracked the top 5 in 2009. 

2017 was also another weak MVP year in terms of candidates. Wentz had a great season, but missed the final three games,  Gurley had a great season. But to win the MVP,  RBs have to have stronger seasons then what he put up. Rodgers missed the majority of the year, Brees didn't have the volume and wasn't the driving force of his team. Brady was really the only player who you could give the award to last season. 

[King Joffrey]

5 minutes ago, game3525 said:

The only really bad one is 2008 and that has more to do with the other candidates. Rivers and Brees had better years, but you aren't winning MVP if your team is 8-8. I used to think 2009 was bad, but the Colts started 14-0 and Peyton bailed them out of in a lot of close games that year. Also for all the flack Peyton got for the 16 ints, Brees actually had more turnovers that year (11 picks and 6 lost fumbles).

If you are going to knock Manning for 2008 and 2009 being weak, then you can pretty much do the same thing for Brady in 2010 and 2017. 2010 was a weaker year in terms of MVP candidates then 2009. In 2009, you had Brees, Favre, Rodgers, Rivers all playing at a high level leading playoff teams. In 2010, Favre hit a wall, Brees and Peyton had down years, Rodgers missed a couple games, Rivers team missed the playoffs. Brady's only real competition in 2010 by the end of the season was Vick, who would have never cracked the top 5 in 2009. 

2017 was also another weak MVP year in terms of candidates. Wentz had a great season, but missed the final three games,  Gurley had a great season. But to win the MVP,  RBs have to have stronger seasons then what he put up. Rodgers missed the majority of the year, Brees didn't have the volume and wasn't the driving force of his team. Brady was really the only player who you could give the award to last season. 

2010 I disagree with so much.  2010 Brady had an all time season and beat all of the best teams in the regular season that year.

 

36 TD's 4 picks is a slam dunk

[game3525]

Just now, King Joffrey said:

2010 I disagree with so much.  2010 Brady had an all time season and beat all of the best teams in the regular season that year.

 

36 TD's 4 picks is a slam dunk

I am not saying it wasn't a great season. I am talking about overall competition.  Brady was great, but no other player was having a standout season in 2010. 

[El Ramster]

Treefiddy

[BayRaider]

1 hour ago, game3525 said:

The only really bad one is 2008 and that has more to do with the other candidates. Rivers and Brees had better years, but you aren't winning MVP if your team is 8-8. I used to think 2009 was bad, but the Colts started 14-0 and Peyton bailed them out of in a lot of close games that year. Also for all the flack Peyton got for the 16 ints, Brees actually had more turnovers that year (11 picks and 6 lost fumbles).

If you are going to knock Manning for 2008 and 2009 being weak, then you can pretty much do the same thing for Brady in 2010 and 2017. 2010 was a weaker year in terms of MVP candidates then 2009. In 2009, you had Brees, Favre, Rodgers, Rivers all playing at a high level leading playoff teams. In 2010, Favre hit a wall, Brees and Peyton had down years, Rodgers missed a couple games, Rivers team missed the playoffs. Brady's only real competition in 2010 by the end of the season was Vick, who would have never cracked the top 5 in 2009. 

2017 was also another weak MVP year in terms of candidates. Wentz had a great season, but missed the final three games,  Gurley had a great season. But to win the MVP,  RBs have to have stronger seasons then what he put up. Rodgers missed the majority of the year, Brees didn't have the volume and wasn't the driving force of his team. Brady was really the only player who you could give the award to last season. 

Agree about 2017. Brady winning by default that year was the same as Peyton in 08. 

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, game3525 said:

I am not saying it wasn't a great season. I am talking about overall competition.  Brady was great, but no other player was having a standout season in 2010. 

I don't think the competition should matter. If you asked everyone what Peyton's best MVP seasons were they'd all say either 2004 or 2013 and there was nobody particularly close to him. In 2013, QB wise that was the only year since 2006 where Brees didn't lead in a stat category, Rodgers got injured, and Brady had his worst season in years with a receiver corp from hell and it was a generic year for running back, and for receivers Gordon led the league in yards but was on a 4-12 team (both rushing and receiving yard leaders were in the 1600 range, which isn't getting you anywhere). 

Yet everyone knows 2013 was easily one of Peyton's two strongest. If Brady has his 2010 most years he would have easily won it.

[Jlowe22]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

I don't think the competition should matter. If you asked everyone what Peyton's best MVP seasons were they'd all say either 2004 or 2013 and there was nobody particularly close to him. In 2013, QB wise that was the only year since 2006 where Brees didn't lead in a stat category, Rodgers got injured, and Brady had his worst season in years with a receiver corp from hell and it was a generic year for running back, and for receivers Gordon led the league in yards but was on a 4-12 team (both rushing and receiving yard leaders were in the 1600 range, which isn't getting you anywhere). 

Yet everyone knows 2013 was easily one of Peyton's two strongest. If Brady has his 2010 most years he would have easily won it.

Brees wasn't close to him in 2013, but he still had numbers that could have led the league and went for MVP any other year.  It wasn't a down year by any stretch, Peyton's stats were just otherworldly.  

[footbull3196]

He deserved 2, and that was in 2004 and 2013 where he was unquestionably the best player in the league.  Out of the other 3 that I consider to be "not really deserved", the strongest case he had for an MVP out of those 3 was by far 2003.  McNair wasnt a particularly strong MVP winner, and Manning did play really well in a season where no other candidate stood out.  But the 2008 and 2009 MVP awards were utter jokes

In 2008, he entered midseason at 3-4 with 10 TDs to 9 INTs.  You're telling me that a 9 game winning streak with 15 TDs to 3 INTs that wasnt even enough to win them the division was suddenly worthy of an MVP award over Philp Rivers who willed the Chargers to the playoffs when they were dead at 4-8?  Hell, I would have rather voted for Andre Johnson with 115/1575/8 on an 8-8 team with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels throwing to him

And don't even get me started on his 2009 MVP.  Just when you thought it couldnt get worse than him winning MVP in 2008, it did.  33 TDs... to 16 INTs lol.  The only players who threw more INTs than Manning that season were Jay Cutler, rookie Matthew Stafford, rookie Mark Sanchez, garbage Jake Delhomme, rookie Josh Freeman, and washed up Matt Hasselbeck.  His defense bailed him out time after time after time that year as evidenced by the 416-307 point differential (which is more indicative of a 10-6 / 11-5 team than a 14-2 team), and all we heard about was the media riding him all year long because of how he was "willing the team to victories in close games".  He was far from the reason that the team won their first 14 games.  There was a 4 game stretch where the Colts deserved to lose every one of those games, yet they pulled them out mainly due to reasons unrelated to Manning.  And you'll never guess who got credit for those victories.  In particular, these were the most egregious:

Week 8 vs SF (W 18-14): Joseph Addai threw a game winning 22 yard TD to Reggie Wayne... with 14:53 left in the 4th quarter.  Manning threw no TDs that game.  Media narrative was "Peyton leads Colts to 7-0 start for 4th time in career"

Week 9 vs Hou (W 20-17): Joseph Addai scored the game winning 2 yard TD run... with 7:11 left in the 4th quarter.  Kris Brown missed a 52 yard field goal as time expired that would have sent it to overtime (and this was the season that Brown totally fell apart down the stretch). Manning threw 1 TD and 1 INT that game.  Media narrative was "Peyton leads Colts to third 4th quarter come from behind win of the season"

Week 10 vs NE (W 35-34): Bill Belichick went for it on 4th and 2 from his own 30... and barely failed due to a ruling that while Kevin Faulk did catch the ball, he did not earn forward progress due to the fact that the ball was juggled.  It didn't matter that he was able to control it at the 30 yard line, where the first down was, it mattered that he was pushed back half a yard, which is ultimately where they marked the ball.  Manning had the game given to him and only had to drive 30 yards for a game winning touchdown that he never should have had the opportunity for in the first place.  But yeah, he was the clutch one for throwing a game winning 1 yard TD pass on a 30 yard drive and not the defense for bailing him out in the first place....

Week 11 @ Baltimore (W 17-15): The Colts won the game on a 25 yard field goal from Matt Stover... with 7:02 left in the 4th quarter.  The defense bailed out Manning once again by intercepting Joe Flacco deep in Indianapolis territory (at the Colts' 13 yard line to be exact) in a situation where a field goal would have given them the lead.  The special teams then bailed out Manning by stripping Ed Reed on a punt return at Baltimore's 40 yard line with only 30 seconds left in the game.  Manning threw for 1 TD and 2 INTs that game.  His only touchdown came in the 1st quarter on a ridiculous 1 handed bobbling catch by Dallas Clark.  Media narrative was "Peyton Manning leads Colts to 4th consecutive win by 4 points or less"

 

TL;DR - Manning obviously deserved his 2004 and 2013 MVPs.  His 2003 MVP was questionable.  Philip Rivers deserved it over him in 2008.  Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Philip Rivers, and Chris Johnson deserved it over him in 2009

[game3525]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

I don't think the competition should matter. If you asked everyone what Peyton's best MVP seasons were they'd all say either 2004 or 2013 and there was nobody particularly close to him. In 2013, QB wise that was the only year since 2006 where Brees didn't lead in a stat category, Rodgers got injured, and Brady had his worst season in years with a receiver corp from hell and it was a generic year for running back, and for receivers Gordon led the league in yards but was on a 4-12 team (both rushing and receiving yard leaders were in the 1600 range, which isn't getting you anywhere). 

Yet everyone knows 2013 was easily one of Peyton's two strongest. If Brady has his 2010 most years he would have easily won it.

Yes, an MVP is an MVP at the end of the day. 

However, I wouldn't consider 2013 a weak year in terms of candidates. Brees would have been a strong candidate in any other year. Like if Peyton had a smilier season to what he did in 2012, I am fairly confident Brees would have won the MVP..

 

[BayRaider]

9 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

He deserved 2, and that was in 2004 and 2013 where he was unquestionably the best player in the league.  Out of the other 3 that I consider to be "not really deserved", the strongest case he had for an MVP out of those 3 was by far 2003.  McNair wasnt a particularly strong MVP winner, and Manning did play really well in a season where no other candidate stood out.  But the 2008 and 2009 MVP awards were utter jokes

In 2008, he entered midseason at 3-4 with 10 TDs to 9 INTs.  You're telling me that a 9 game winning streak with 15 TDs to 3 INTs that wasnt even enough to win them the division was suddenly worthy of an MVP award over Philp Rivers who willed the Chargers to the playoffs when they were dead at 4-8?  Hell, I would have rather voted for Andre Johnson with 115/1575/8 on an 8-8 team with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels throwing to him

And don't even get me started on his 2009 MVP.  Just when you thought it couldnt get worse than him winning MVP in 2008, it did.  33 TDs... to 16 INTs lol.  The only players who threw more INTs than Manning that season were Jay Cutler, rookie Matthew Stafford, rookie Mark Sanchez, garbage Jake Delhomme, rookie Josh Freeman, and washed up Matt Hasselbeck.  His defense bailed him out time after time after time that year as evidenced by the 416-307 point differential (which is more indicative of a 10-6 / 11-5 team than a 14-2 team), and all we heard about was the media riding him all year long because of how he was "willing the team to victories in close games".  He was far from the reason that the team won their first 14 games.  There was a 4 game stretch where the Colts deserved to lose every one of those games, yet they pulled them out mainly due to reasons unrelated to Manning.  And you'll never guess who got credit for those victories.  In particular, these were the most egregious:

Week 8 vs SF (W 18-14): Joseph Addai threw a game winning 22 yard TD to Reggie Wayne... with 14:53 left in the 4th quarter.  Manning threw no TDs that game.  Media narrative was "Peyton leads Colts to 7-0 start for 4th time in career"

Week 9 vs Hou (W 20-17): Joseph Addai scored the game winning 2 yard TD run... with 7:11 left in the 4th quarter.  Kris Brown missed a 52 yard field goal as time expired that would have sent it to overtime (and this was the season that Brown totally fell apart down the stretch). Manning threw 1 TD and 1 INT that game.  Media narrative was "Peyton leads Colts to third 4th quarter come from behind win of the season"

Week 10 vs NE (W 35-34): Bill Belichick went for it on 4th and 2 from his own 30... and barely failed due to a ruling that while Kevin Faulk did catch the ball, he did not earn forward progress due to the fact that the ball was juggled.  It didn't matter that he was able to control it at the 30 yard line, where the first down was, it mattered that he was pushed back half a yard, which is ultimately where they marked the ball.  Manning had the game given to him and only had to drive 30 yards for a game winning touchdown that he never should have had the opportunity for in the first place.  But yeah, he was the clutch one for throwing a game winning 1 yard TD pass on a 30 yard drive and not the defense for bailing him out in the first place....

Week 11 @ Baltimore (W 17-15): The Colts won the game on a 25 yard field goal from Matt Stover... with 7:02 left in the 4th quarter.  The defense bailed out Manning once again by intercepting Joe Flacco deep in Indianapolis territory (at the Colts' 13 yard line to be exact) in a situation where a field goal would have given them the lead.  The special teams then bailed out Manning by stripping Ed Reed on a punt return at Baltimore's 40 yard line with only 30 seconds left in the game.  Manning threw for 1 TD and 2 INTs that game.  His only touchdown came in the 1st quarter on a ridiculous 1 handed bobbling catch by Dallas Clark.  Media narrative was "Peyton Manning leads Colts to 4th consecutive win by 4 points or less"

 

TL;DR - Manning obviously deserved his 2004 and 2013 MVPs.  His 2003 MVP was questionable.  Philip Rivers deserved it over him in 2008.  Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Philip Rivers, and Chris Johnson deserved it over him in 2009

An 8-8 team is not producing an MVP. 

[game3525]

Yeah, Rivers was outstanding in 2008. But you aren't winning MVP with an 8-8 record. Granted, it wasn't his fault. The defense blew many fourth quarter leads that year. The 2008 MVP likely should have gone to a defensive player. Haynesworth had an outstanding season , as did James Harrison. But we don't care about defense, so we just gave it to Peyton.