MVP Race

[stl4life07]

5 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

After one game against a non-conference opponent with no defense ? It seems weird that this one game would decide the difference between Goff being 3rd and tied for second. 

Well it has alot to do with how big this game was. Goff was already a top 4 MVP candidate. On the biggest stage Goff was the guy that led the 4th quarter comeback when the Rams was down with the ball and threw that td pass to help the Rams take the lead. Mahomes had two drives to tie or lead and he threw two interceptions. People are going to remember that. Both QBs had the eye popping stats tonight and both QB has great stats this season BUT Goff delivered when it mattered the most tonight and Mahomes didnt. So that holds weight is what Im saying. If Goff wasnt heavily in the conversation before tonight, he made his case after tonight. 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, stl4life07 said:

Well it has alot to do with how big this game was. Goff was already a top 4 MVP candidate. On the biggest stage Goff was the guy that led the 4th quarter comeback when the Rams was down with the ball and threw that td pass to help the Rams take the lead. Mahomes had two drives to tie or lead and he threw two interceptions. People are going to remember that. Both QBs had the eye popping stats tonight and both QB has great stats this season BUT Goff delivered when it mattered the most tonight and Mahomes didnt. So that holds weight is what Im saying. If Goff wasnt heavily in the conversation before tonight, he made his case after tonight. 

I know how big of a game it was that heavily relied on offenses (aka the QB) but one game in week 11 should not change much.

[Nabbs4u]

Like it our not Goff will be knocked because of the season Gurley is having and vice versa. Justifiably!

It's really only a two player race at this point, sorry. Now that easily could change over the next two months so anything is possible.

[stl4life07]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I know how big of a game it was that heavily relied on offenses (aka the QB) but one game in week 11 should not change much.

Goff has had more than one big game though. When the media made the the Chargers game big, the Vikings on TNF in LA big, the Saints game big, Goff delivered each time. Like even in a loss, people came away impressed that down by 21pts Goff lead the Rams back into that game where team like the Redskins and Eagles got down big and just folded. Even head to head against ARod which was another big game, Goff delivered. So tonight wasnt just one big game it was a bunch of big games Goff and the Rams had this season that he shined in a big way. Tonight was just another validating performance to say "dont forget about me" when people talk about Brees and Mahomes in the MVP conversation. 

[JMG5]

I would like Brees to finally win the MVP, but just think of how great the ketchup commercials would be if Mahomes won... 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

Goff has had more than one big game though. When the media made the the Chargers game big, the Vikings on TNF in LA big, the Saints game big, Goff delivered each time. Like even in a loss, people came away impressed that down by 21pts Goff lead the Rams back into that game where team like the Redskins and Eagles got down big and just folded. Even head to head against ARod which was another big game, Goff delivered. So tonight wasnt just one big game it was a bunch of big games Goff and the Rams had this season that he shined in a big way. Tonight was just another validating performance to say "dont forget about me" when people talk about Brees and Mahomes in the MVP conversation. 

None of this explains why people should automatically move Goff to an equal standard as Mahomes at this point. One game should not define an entire season.

Let's say Mahomes (who was clearly #2 behind Brees) had the same game as Goff in this last game.....would you say that Mahomes had done enough to equal Brees? 

[Jakuvious]

I very much thought that tonight would provide clarity to this debate, but honestly, I think it just muddied the waters further. I think it slightly pushed the needle towards Brees, basically because he now has an advantage in W/L record. But otherwise, it really just widened the gaps the two already had. Mahomes is now even further ahead in bulk, but also even further ahead in interceptions. So it still comes down to the basic question of which do you value more, 40 yards per game + .8ish TDs per game more, or, .8 INTs per game less. And I don't think it's a simple question to answer. And I don't think everyone will have the same answer, either. If we continue this trend, I fully expect both guys to get votes one way or another. But it's a tough one. As it stands, I won't be upset if Brees gets it. I'd be ecstatic if Mahomes did, but both guys are very worthy. I think it's a matter of preference. Flash or reliability, basically. I think things probably lean Brees right now. Team record is really a pretty reliable tiebreaker for these things.

And I will say, there's a lot of reasons for the gaps between the two. I think Chiefs fans and Saints fans could probably go back and forth with excuses to explain the gaps in performance pretty easily. Mahomes's bulk comes in part because we have a downfield offense now that needs it. Part of Brees's completion percentage is aided by the style of offense and the weapons he has. Hill and Kelce were basically built in a lab to catch TDs. While Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara are cheat codes to raise a QB's completion percentage. Mahomes's OL definitely isn't on par with the Saints, and they shoulder the blame for a few of his turnovers this year. But on the flip side, that same Saints OL is part of what keeps Brees bulk down because running the ball is so attractive for them (like 50 more rushes than us in one less game played, and we have a more mobile QB too.) In the end, I really don't think those things add up to too much of a difference in terms of how much their cast or situation helps/hurts them. It's just a matter of preference between too fantastic QBs having all-time great seasons, each of them.

[Nabbs4u]

As I posted in another thread None of you should want your Player winning the League MVP. Especially since the last player to also win the SB in the same year was Warner in 99'. Before that you have to go back 3 more decades I believe since it occurred in 1966'? That's 1 time in 50 years?

You don't want League MVP! Odds are stacked against you!! Shout out and big Thanks to Tom Brady for continuing that trend last year. Even at the expense of Carson Wentz's ACL.

[navysaintsfan]

3 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

As I posted in another thread None of you should want your Player winning the League MVP. Especially since the last player to also win the SB in the same year was Warner in 99'. Before that you have to go back 3 more decades I believe since it occurred in 1966'? That's 1 time in 50 years?

You don't want League MVP! Odds are stacked against you!! Shout out and big Thanks to Tom Brady for continuing that trend last year. Even at the expense of Carson Wentz's ACL.

I want a Super Bowl win. I could care less if Brees once again doesn't win the MVP if he can win another Super Bowl MVP

[stl4life07]

5 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

None of this explains why people should automatically move Goff to an equal standard as Mahomes at this point. One game should not define an entire season.

Let's say Mahomes (who was clearly #2 behind Brees) had the same game as Goff in this last game.....would you say that Mahomes had done enough to equal Brees? 

I thought coming into the game Mahomes was 1st. You can’t turn the ball over 5 times (2 times in the last 1:54) and loss and still be 1st. What it did for me is put Brees 1st and put the magnifying glass on Mahomes and Goff. Goff came into the game as an MVP candidate too but he played a great game, delivered when it mattered the most and Mahomes didn’t. To me Goff just made himself even more so in the conversation with Mahomes right behind Brees in the MVP discussion. And again let’s not forget Goff went toe to toe with Brees and had the game tied in the 4th quarter in the Superdome. Like last night if anyone came away still with the impression that it’s Brees and Mahomes then everyone else I don’t know what to tell you. It’s now Brees, Mahomes/Goff. 

[Bobikus]

4 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Before that you have to go back 3 more decades I believe since it occurred in 1966'? That's 1 time in 50 years?

One year.  TD in '98.  Also Favre in 96, Young in 94, Smith in 93, Montana in 89, LT in 86, Moseley (lol) in 82, Bradshaw in 78, Starr in 66.

Since Warner's 99 year though, MVPs are 0-9 in the SB when they make it that far.

 

Also right now I think it's Brees unless Mahomes breaks the TD record.

[Raves]

Mahomes vs Brees against common Opponents (Cincinnati, Cleveland, LA Rams) combined:

Mahomes:  84/117, 71.8 comp%, 1211 yard, 13 TD, 5 INT, 4 Fumbles

Brees: 75/96, 78.1 comp%, 854 yards, 9 TD, 0 INT, 0 Fumble, 1 Rush TD

[jaa1025]

30 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

I thought coming into the game Mahomes was 1st. You can’t turn the ball over 5 times (2 times in the last 1:54) and loss and still be 1st. What it did for me is put Brees 1st and put the magnifying glass on Mahomes and Goff. Goff came into the game as an MVP candidate too but he played a great game, delivered when it mattered the most and Mahomes didn’t. To me Goff just made himself even more so in the conversation with Mahomes right behind Brees in the MVP discussion. And again let’s not forget Goff went toe to toe with Brees and had the game tied in the 4th quarter in the Superdome. Like last night if anyone came away still with the impression that it’s Brees and Mahomes then everyone else I don’t know what to tell you. It’s now Brees, Mahomes/Goff. 

I'm not going to blame Mahomes for those two fumbles. You have a hall of fame DT dominate his guard and hit him from the blind side twice. There isn't a QB in the NFL that doesn't fumble those two plays. His arm was hit on one INT and the other he was trying to drive the ball down the field with 20 seconds left. The only INT that really is on him was the no look attempt that hit his guard and was a fluke INT. 9 times out of 10 that just hits the ground.

 

[jaa1025]

1 minute ago, Raves said:

Mahomes vs Brees against common Opponents (Cincinnati, Cleveland, LA Rams) combined:

Mahomes:  84/117, 71.8 comp%, 1211 yard, 13 TD, 5 INT, 4 Fumbles

Brees: 75/96, 78.1 comp%, 854 yards, 9 TD, 0 INT, 0 Fumble, 1 Rush TD

@ me when Brees gets away from the dome.

[Bobikus]

Amusing thing about last night's statline is that despite 3 INTs, Mahomes had the higher passer rating.