Trubisky vs Watson, long term

[BAConrad]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

I don’t think the Eagles are trash or anything but multiple aspects of the team has regressed this year. Virtually on defense minus Fletcher. The offensive line. The run game. Even Pederson is getting flak.

Literally the only starters from the SB winning defense left rn are Cox, Graham, Bradham, and Jenkins.

4. Out of 11. 

But yah this is basically the same team tho apparently

[JAF-N72EX]

2 minutes ago, BAConrad said:

Oh you're right. I'm so stupid. I managed to just make this all about Wentz. 

Wait hold on...*reads post*.

..........

Quote

 

Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and just stop you right here. 

Have you watched our team? At all? Or are you just looking at our SB roster? Because missing from that SB team are:

Torrey Smith and Mack Hollins at WR 

Derek Barnett and Tommy Jernigan at DE and DT 

All three of our starting corners from SB? One left, one just tore his ACL, and the other is hurt and also sucks when he is healthy.

Lane Johnson, Wizniewski, and JP have all been either hurt, inexplicably benched, or bad and then hurt. In that order.

Our starting safety McLeod is out and has been gone all this season pretty much. And we have had to start a 4th round rookie slot cornerback who is 5'9 in his place. 

Ajayi just tore his ACL. Blount left. We have a dinged up Clement and Smallwood at RB. 

Oh and two of our assistant coaches have left and gone on to do incredibly well in their jobs as HC in Indy and Oc In Minnesota. And we didn't replace either of them. 

So please tell me more about this SB caliber roster that Wentz is surrounded by. I'll wait

 

 

[Soko]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

*Shrug*

I tried to bring it up...

Don’t have an issue using stats or environment in a discussion, but use them across the board...not selectively.

Can’t have it both ways. 

[BAConrad]

Just now, JustAnotherFan said:

..........

 

Uhh and?

You posted the thing about Wentz before I responded to the moronic statement about the Eagles roster being "really good" right now. I brought up Wentz once to compare him to Watson. 

But ok. Clearly you have an agenda.

Cowboys fan aren't you

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, BAConrad said:

Uhh and?

You posted the thing about Wentz before I responded to the moronic statement about the Eagles roster being "really good" right now. I brought up Wentz once to compare him to Watson. 

But ok. Clearly you have an agenda.

Cowboys fan aren't you

LMAO! 

[BAConrad]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

LMAO! 

Yeah. 

Literally knew your next response would be some stupid GIF.

This forums gone to trash.

Lame.

How about instead of just posting quotes of other statements out of context and GIFs, you actually respond with your own words?

Or is it hard to type with just the one hand right now

[JAF-N72EX]

On 11/8/2018 at 12:20 PM, JustAnotherFan said:

Since you two have such strong opinions on this and the comparison is not even close, I assume you have watched both QB's closely. 

So in detail, what are both QB's strengths and weakness? What does one offer that the other does not?  

7 Pages later and nobody has yet to answer this. That tells me all I need to know.

[JAF-N72EX]

Let's see. Accusing me of being a Cowboys fan with an agenda was wrong on so many levels. Accusing me of bring up Wentz was wrong (shows how you actually read). But I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Just now, BAConrad said:

Yeah. 

Literally knew your next response would be some stupid GIF.

This forums gone to trash.

Lame.

And you don't help.

 

[ET80]

7 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

7 Pages later and nobody has yet to answer this. That tells me all I need to know.

While I didn't answer the specific question at hand, I think I did a fairly good job of looking at each guy outside of the proverbial vacuum we put people in and looked at their circumstances - in an effort to put some weight behind their numbers this season:

On 11/11/2018 at 7:58 PM, ET80 said:

I'll admit that I'm probably short selling Trubisky - but when you look at the two on a game-by-game basis, I see that Trubisky is either really good or really bad, no middle ground. 

Watson has a few bad games, but he's relatively consistent overall in relation to his stats this season. 

And, while Watson has the better overall weapon in DeAndre Hopkins, the depth and variety of weapons Trubisky has is better. Texans don't have a TE like Trey Burton or a scatback like Tarik Cohen. Allen Robinson isn't in the same galaxy as Hopkins, but Taylor Gabriel and Anthony Miller are better than Keke Coutee and Vyncient Smith (Demaryius Thomas should improve upon this situation over the next few weeks, and Will Fuller SHOULD be in this discussion... but he can't stay healthy). 

I won't go into the OL individually, but the Bears OL is CONSIDERABLY better. Watson is pressured on nearly 50% of his dropbacks, has been sacked and hit more than any other QB in the league by a wide margin - it's borderline criminal how bad Watson's OL has been. Then, there is the coaching. I don't have a read on Matt Nagy, but he's better than Bill O'Brien. By a lot, I'd wager.

Watson is also coming back from that ACL injury, and we can cite example after example of guys regressing the season following such an injury. 

In conclusion - Trubisky has a slight advantage in regards to his situation (I say slight because Hopkins is THAT much of an equalizer). Yet, Watson is producing at an equal clip for the most part (your words, not mine).

What would the numbers look like if the playing field was equal? If Watson had an even average OL? A dependable TE in the seam? A satellite back who can make yards on short passes? A coach who doesn't mismanage the clock or fall into a cycle of predictability on 1st and 2nd down? What would the situation look like if Trubisky had DeAndre Hopkins... and nothing else?

I'll let you tell me.

Take that FWIW. 

[Soko]

As for the thread - I always like Trubisky. I had some doubts that he was turning into typical-Bortles (QB with spotty accuracy, questionable ability to go through reads, and meh footwork), but I think he’s fixed some of those things. I’m not sure his accuracy will ever be incredibly consistent like the better QBs in the league, but other aspects of his game have come into his own. He’s a guy that’s super green behind the ears with such few college starts and then debatably negative experience under Fox, so he’s not a finished product. I think he can be a slightly weaker armed-Matthew Stafford, with better legs. I’ve been rooting for him and the Bears all season.

Its hard for me to look at Watson and judge him. His run game just isn’t consistent. The offensive line is one of the worst I’ve seen. Hopkins is the only reliable target (which actually doesn’t do much to showcase Watson’s ability tbh, because Hopkins will catch anything) and BoB is a lame duck coach. I wasn’t a fan of Watson coming out, but he’s shown a lot more than I expected. I want to see more of him when he’s healthy, hopefully with better players and coaches around him. 

It’s closer than some are making it out to be, especially if we’re factoring in Watson’s knees. 

Side note: Mahomes, though? Please. He was just as much a project coming out. Will he fall back down to earth? Probably at some point, but you absolutely cannot look at the abilities that the two have showcased and somehow say it’s a toss up, stats aside (which Mahomes destroys in). Maybe you have faith Trubisky’s long term potential gets realized and Mahomes is just a flash in the pan, but there’s really just not enough evidence of that. It’d be an opinion based more on hope or shaky projections than it would be on their skills or their abilities.

[Soko]

10 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

7 Pages later and nobody has yet to answer this. That tells me all I need to know.

Have you posted your in depth analysis on Watson somewhere that I’m not seeing? I realize you weren’t the one to strongly come out and say “Tru>Watson” but you don’t really come off any better if you don’t have some sort of write-up on Watson. Which you might. Which you may have posted and I missed. 

And it’s not always ABC logic. If someone made a Brady vs Gabbert thread, you’d best bet I wouldn’t waste my time typing something out to make my point. Obviously this isn’t on that level of extreme, but someone not indulging your request could very well be...this just isn’t worth the effort. Especially since not everyone ITT is a level headed poster like yourself.

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Have you posted your in depth analysis on Watson somewhere that I’m not seeing? I realize you weren’t the one to strongly come out and say “Tru>Watson” but you don’t really come off any better if you don’t have some sort of write-up on Watson. Which you might. Which you may have posted and I missed. 

And it’s not always ABC logic. If someone made a Brady vs Gabbert thread, you’d best bet I wouldn’t waste my time typing something out to make my point. Obviously this isn’t on that level of extreme, but someone not indulging your request could very well be...this just isn’t worth the effort. Especially since not everyone ITT is a level headed poster like yourself.

No, I haven't and I gave my reasons as to why on page one. I'm gonna give my opinion on a player that I have not watched closely enough to have an opinion on. I don't roll like that. But too many people on this forum try an portray like they have. And maybe they have watched both players. But if they did, I would assume they could answer a question like that. If not, well....

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

No, I haven't and I gave my reasons as to why on page one. I'm gonna give my opinion on a player that I have not watched closely enough to have an opinion on. I don't roll like that. But too many people on this forum try an portray like they have. And maybe they have watched both players. But if they did, I would assume they could answer a question like that. If not, well....

Where’s the line though?

If I watch all of Watson’s games, does that qualify me to talk on him? Do I have to be able to write a detailed write up as per your request? Do I need to do this across the board for any player I ever comment on? 

I’m not advocating getting into debates with or against players or teams that one doesn’t watch. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, even if it’s a weak one. It just seems convenient you didn’t ask the same of anyone voting for Trubisky, though. Only the ones for Watson.

 If you really think that anyone who says anything on any player must watch them in totality, then the forum would largely be dead. 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Where’s the line though?

If I watch all of Watson’s games, does that qualify me to talk on him? Do I have to be able to write a detailed write up as per your request? Do I need to do this across the board for any player I ever comment on? 

I’m not advocating getting into debates with or against players or teams that one doesn’t watch. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, even if it’s a weak one. It just seems convenient you didn’t ask the same of anyone voting for Trubisky, though.

 If you really think that anyone who says anything on any player must watch them in totality, then the forum would largely be dead. 

You're over thinking this. The line is having an opinion is fine (as you said, everyone is entitled to one). Having such a strong opinion is a different animal altogether.

I'm not conveniently asking anything out any particular party. Only those with such a strong opinion about one way or the other (go back and read why that question was specifically directed at two posters -- fyi this is not the only Mitch related thread for one of them).

And I have not seen any Bears fans here advocating that Mitch is better than anyone so there's has been no reason for them to answer. All I have seen is them defending Mitch (some right, some wrong) and I know for sure those said Bears fans have watched Mitch. 

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

You're over thinking this. The line is having an opinion is fine (as you said, everyone is entitled to one). Having such a strong opinion is a different animal altogether.

Meh, I don’t think I am.

Smitty largely did what the other Bears guy did. Poked and prodded, asked some loaded questions, but never said Watson>Tru. Danger made one little comment and said it wasn’t close. 

Sounds more like an overreaction.

Quote

I'm not conveniently asking anything out any particular party. Only those with such a strong opinion about one way or the other (go back and read why that question was specifically directed at two posters -- fyi this is not the only Mitch related thread for one of them).

You are though, because one guy did exactly what Superman was doing. Not making a definitive stance, but making points and asking questions as if they did. 

Quote

And I have not seen any Bears fans here advocating that Mitch is better than anyone so there's has been no reason for them to answer. All I have seen is them defending Mitch (some right, some wrong) and I know for sure those said Bears fans have watched Mitch. 

Yeah, but have they watched Watson?