JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: It's almost like players can't be good and then improve into something great! Using numbers from 2002 and comparing them to 2018 is a bad take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said: Using numbers from 2002 and comparing them to 2018 is a bad take. Why is that? The point of it wasn’t to insinuate that Trubisky will some day be as good as Brees, rather it’s to show that when people claim “Trubisky is terrible!” he actually 1) isn’t, unless you’re blind and 2) has put up numbers that are better than one of the best ever, which shows that one of the best ever continued to work at it and became even better, which leads into the point that @Superman(DH23) has tried to repeatedly make in this rag of a thread that no one knows yet what any of these guys are until the end of 2019 at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: Why is that? The point of it wasn’t to insinuate that Trubisky will some day be as good as Brees, rather it’s to show that when people claim “Trubisky is terrible!” he actually 1) isn’t, unless you’re blind and 2) has put up numbers that are better than one of the best ever, which shows that one of the best ever continued to work at it and became even better, which leads into the point that @Superman(DH23) has tried to repeatedly make in this rag of a thread that no one knows yet what any of these guys are until the end of 2019 at the earliest. 1) It's ignoring inflation. 2) It's cherry picking. I could easily say "look at the first 20 games from X bad QB compared to Mitch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: 1) It's ignoring inflation. 2) It's cherry picking. I could easily say "look at the first 20 games from X bad QB compared to Mitch". It’s absolutely not cherry picking. Go for it. Find me QB who turned out bad with a 86 QB rating, 23 TD’s, 14 INT’s and 7.0 YPA in his first 20 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: It’s absolutely not cherry picking. Go for it. Find me QB who turned out bad with a 86 QB rating, 23 TD’s, 14 INT’s and 7.0 YPA in his first 20 games. Again, you are ignoring inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckweath Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 It's never fun being told that your highly picked young QB won't be anything special and I've seen that Bears fans seem to really believe he has a chance to be great but I just don't see it. I do think that Matt NAgy might become a great coach though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: It’s absolutely not cherry picking. Go for it. Find me QB who turned out bad with a 86 QB rating, 23 TD’s, 14 INT’s and 7.0 YPA in his first 20 games. Comparing 2002 to 2018 in terms of QB rating is ridiculous. The avg. QB rating in 2002 was 80.4 compared to 94.2 in 2018. It's a completely different league offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Comparing 2002 to 2018 in terms of QB rating is ridiculous. The avg. QB rating in 2002 was 80.4 compared to 94.2 in 2018. It's a completely different league offensively. Yeah it's kind of strange that some people STILL don't seem to understand this. Like at all. We have roughly 9-10 QBs on Pace to finish with seasons that, 5-10+ years ago would have been considered as "all time great" level seasons. Its so much freaking easier to play quarterback today in the NFL as it is now, than it ever has been in the history of the league. Like, not even close really. So at this point, QB statistics really should be separated when being discussed in comparison with others from earlier eras (basically just slap an asterisk on any stat line from 2018 and beyond) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, MookieMonstah said: This thread has reached the polar ends of both arguments. In no way is there any sort of argument to take Trubisky over Mahomes going forward, but to also say that Trubiskys ceiling is an average QB is equally insane. The guy has been playing well and makes some absolutely dynamite throws. I think his ceiling is that of a Big Ben type of QB. Always around that top 7ish level, but doesn't ever reach the elite level of Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers etc. Agreed. I like what I see from Tru. Obviously he has to improve a good deal, but I don't see any reason to assume he doesn't (not necessarily a good reason to assume he does either... which is why I say wait and see, clearly CAN be very good IMO). Although I don't necessarily agree, and this doesn't have much to do with your point but just wanting to make the observation, with the whole never cracking top 7ish. While completely true for the present (Ben has always been a level below those 4 elites), you have to remember that those 4 guys all are considered top 10 QBs since the merger. There is a very real chance we don't have 4, 3, 2, or maybe even 1 top 10 post-merger QB over the next 15 years. It's not far fetched that today's Big Ben (not yesterday's...) would be considered an elite QB playing in the next decade, know what I mean? NFL has changed a bit too in that they used to look for cerebral passers to execute timing based offenses, whereas now the prototype is clearly the big athletic QB that can make throws on the move, take hits, buy time in the pocket (pass pro has declined). We'll see a lot more players in the mold of Big Ben then a Brady/Manning/Brees, and while there is no reason for those to be mutually exclusive ("cerebral", high accuracy, consistent mechanics vs big, athletic, strong arm), it's been rare to find that mix. Rodgers is almost that but he lacks the size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 53 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Comparing 2002 to 2018 in terms of QB rating is ridiculous. The avg. QB rating in 2002 was 80.4 compared to 94.2 in 2018. It's a completely different league offensively. So then his 98 qb rating would be considered...good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 @AllbrightNFL: Worst QB's by INT% in the NFL so far this season: 1. Jameis Winston 2. Ryan Fitzpatrick 3. Sam Darnold 4. Josh Rosen 5. Deshaun Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: So then his 98 qb rating would be considered...good? No, it would be considered average. 15 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: @AllbrightNFL: Worst QB's by INT% in the NFL so far this season: 1. Jameis Winston 2. Ryan Fitzpatrick 3. Sam Darnold 4. Josh Rosen 5. Deshaun Watson I would've thought by now that you have learned to stop believing everything you read on twitter. Jameis Winston Ryan Fitzpatrick Sam Darnold Josh Rosen C.J. Beathard Top 10 Jameis Winston Ryan Fitzpatrick Sam Darnold Josh Rosen C.J. Beathard Andy Dalton Deshaun Watson Case Keenum Mitchell Trubisky Marcus Mariota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Lol, or we can enjoy the greatness of the 2017 1st round QBs and all be happy with our guys and reconvene in 2 years like we should. Ehh who am I kidding this is FF let the hot takes continue You've been here long enough to know that's not going to happen. Hell, look at the Kamara thread for evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said: No, it would be considered average. I would've thought by now that you have learned to stop believing everything you read on twitter. Jameis Winston Ryan Fitzpatrick Sam Darnold Josh Rosen C.J. Beathard Top 10 Jameis Winston Ryan Fitzpatrick Sam Darnold Josh Rosen C.J. Beathard Andy Dalton Deshaun Watson Case Keenum Mitchell Trubisky Marcus Mariota I'd think that if 94 is average, 98 is better than average and better than average = good As for the INT%, maybe Beathard doesn't have enough passes to qualify in Allbright's? EDIT: I just looked. Winston has less passes so I don't know. No need to get all high and mighty. I posted a retweet off of twitter. Last time you accused me of this, you got pissed because it was something Florio tweeted (which, BTW, Florio said Trubisky said what he did about Lombardi to him, not in his postgame presser, which you thought). Neither were things that I said. Relax. EDIT II: Someone just tweeted Allbright that the order is wrong and he said his order is attempts + who's a starter, so Beathard doesn't meet the "starting QB" criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 hours ago, beardown3231 said: So then his 98 qb rating would be considered...good? If that’s all you got out of that I don’t know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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