2019 Free Agent Discussion

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, fistfullofbeer said:

I totally get that and not even disagreeing with you about it.

But what I am trying to say is that we have too many holes on our D to turn it into one that can dominate and win games for us. On the other hand, we can go over the top on our offense and fill as many holes as we can on D. Even if this is a short-term fix for a year or two, it gives Rodgers all the support he needs.

I am a big hockey fan and a big believer in the importance of elite players. I understand how different roster sizes and salary caps make football and hockey hard to equate but in Hockenson and Brown we have two elite players. Even if we use #12 and #30 for defensive picks I doubt we get the level of talent that Hockenson and Brown would get. I would rather have 2 elite offensive players than 2 good defensive players.

We really need to get away from this whole "TJ Hockenson (or insert any other TE) is an elite prospect".  They're damn good prospect, but people need to stop pretending like they're going to revolutionize the TE position.  The difference between say he and Brian Burns is minimal at best, so how do you differentiate between the two of them?  You have to compare the rest of the class as a whole, and see what kind of values you're getting later in the draft.  If you're looking at a R1/R3 combination of Brian Burns and Jace Sternberger OR TJ Hockenson and Justin Hollins, which one are you taking?  For me, it's pretty clearly the Burns/Sternberger combination.  We've finally going to be prepared to have the board shape up with an EDGE of value being available, and you're opting to take a TE in what is arguably the deepest TE class in recent years.  There's literally no reason that you'd take Hock over a similarly graded EDGE.  EDGE players get drafted really, really quickly.  With the exception of TJ Watt and to a lesser extent Marcus Davenport, the Packers really haven't been in a position to draft a high quality EDGE and I'm not ready to pass on it now.

Our offense wasn't bad last year, we need to squash that right now.  Were they as good as they were before?  No, but they certainly weren't.  We had a franchise QB who wasn't quiet about his displeasure with the offense under Mike McCarthy.  We had essentially 2 rookie WRs playing significant amount of snaps and a new TE connecting with Rodgers.  We will be better next year by virtue of that.  We have a few holes, but most of those are from a long-term perspective.

[BlondeonBlonde]

What's the deal with Cameron Wake? I haven't seen his name mentioned at all here or on twitter. I get that he's 37, but he's been healthy and is coming off a very good season. He'd be a good stop-gap, imo.

[MacReady]

Just now, BlondeonBlonde said:

What's the deal with Cameron Wake? I haven't seen his name mentioned at all here or on twitter. I get that he's 37, but he's been healthy and is coming off a very good season. He'd be a good stop-gap, imo.

People want to spend 15 million on younger, less-accomplished players because they're going to miss Clay's and Nick's contracts. 

I'm all for paying Wake 20 million over 2 years or Houston 30 million over 3 before I get tied up to either Smith for 4-5 years at 13-15 million per. 

[Packerraymond]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, lol, it's okay to want to trade a 30th overall pick for a 31 year old receiver who is the biggest diva since Owens retired and draft a tight end 12th overall.  Lol.  Screw defense.  What has defense ever won? 

I want to see record setting touchdown numbers and then get embarrassed in the Championship round or Super Bowl just like that always happens.  I loved watching that first Peyton Manning Broncos Super Bowl or the Rams scoring 3 points or the Chiefs being held to zero points in the first half. 

Gimme that high flying offense that crashes brutally back to Earth when it matters.  2011 had a great end.

I swear to God sometimes people here convince themselves of this **** by turning off their entire brain. 

The all powerful Rodgers hasn't done **** in the playoffs without a defense and everybody acts like we just need to get him more help on offense.  It makes no got damn sense. 

And we aren't even talking about offensive linemen here.  We're talking about a got damn tight end who didn't run under a 4.7 40. 

And you'ree talking about 12th overall. 

Ertz, Kelce, Kittle, Hooper, Cook, Rudolph, Njoku, Graham and Burton were the top 10 tight ends in receptions last year.  Njoku was the highest drafted at 29th overall and you're talking about Hockenson at 12th overall. 

It's stupid, it's crazy stupid, and you know it, but oh it was Outpost who said it, so lol, let's be okay with this kind of opinion. 

Do you know how many rookie tight ends have had a better season than Jimmy Graham just had for us last year since 1990? 

2.  Two rookie tight ends have had better seasons than Graham just did.  So we're using 12th overall essentially for not this year, probably not next year, but three years down the road?  You think that's okay?  It's not okay.  It's why tight ends don't get taken in round one often, and even when they do - IF they hit - they take time.

You think I just cut that off at 1990 to suit my argument?  I didn't. 

SINCE AS FAR BACK AS 1936, 4 TIGHT ENDS HAVE HAD OVER 55 RECEPTIONS IN THEIR ROOKIE YEARS. 

FOUR.

Only 25 tight ends had over 55 receptions in their second years. 

Only 33 tight ends have had over 55 receptions in their third years.

IT IS A *****ING TIGHT END YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. 

It's not a left tackle, it's not a QB, it's not even a running back, it's a tight end.  Rodgers won a Super Bowl throwing to Donald effing Lee. 

And I haven't even started in on Brown yet. 

*Quit on his team (after throwing a football at his QB)
*Said his new team has to play by his rules
*Has not stopped insulting, deriding, badmouthing and talking **** about his former team and teammate
*Has not once taken accountability for anything
*Wants a new deal
*Is going to be 31 years old
*Is a receiver
*Will take snaps away from MVS and ESB
*How do you think he's going to handle Aaron's obvious trust and preference towards Adams
*How do you think his behavior will go if he's ever open and Rodgers doesn't throw, as Rodgers has shown in the past
*How do you think Antonio's personality will mesh with Aaron's? 

But yeah, wear it like a badge of honor if you upset Outpost.  He likes defense.  Screw defense.  Real key to victory is effing tight ends 12th overall and diva receivers.  Lions do great with that kind of franchise outlook.  So do the Bengals.  Let's be like the frickin Lions. 

 

I'm not a fan of 30 for Brown.

12 for Quinten Nelson? Now we're talking.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

I'm not a fan of 30 for Brown.

12 for Quinten Nelson? Now we're talking.

I hate you sometimes. 

[rcon14]

fwiw regarding Dante Fowler

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1103354316742688774

[JBURGE]

8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

People want to spend 15 million on younger, less-accomplished players because they're going to miss Clay's and Nick's contracts. 

I'm all for paying Wake 20 million over 2 years or Houston 30 million over 3 before I get tied up to either Smith for 4-5 years at 13-15 million per. 

Sign both Wake and Houston, 2/16M for Wake and 2/30M for Houston, 2 years each. Draft edge at 12. Bring Wilk back for 1y/5M and draft Simmons at 44. Who says no

[MacReady]

Just now, JBURGE said:

Sign both Wake and Houston, 12 for Wake and 15 for Houston, 2 years each. Draft edge at 12. Bring Wilk back for $5 and draft Simmons at 44. Who says no

Lots of people apparently because we needz offenses

[JBURGE]

1 minute ago, JBURGE said:

Sign both Wake and Houston, 1/8M for Wake and 2/30M for Houston, 2 years each. Draft edge at 12. Bring Wilk back for 1y/5M and draft Simmons at 44. Who says no

 

Just now, Outpost31 said:

Lots of people apparently because we needz offenses

I edited my post for numbers. Didn't realize Wake was paid so low the last 2 years

[Victor1124]

1 minute ago, JBURGE said:

Sign both Wake and Houston, 2/24M for Wake and 2/30M for Houston, 2 years each. Draft edge at 12. Bring Wilk back for 1y/5M and draft Simmons at 44. Who says no

Hard pass on using 27 million in cap for the next two years on Wake and Houston. Id be okay with the rest of it. 

[JBURGE]

Clark / Daniels (Simmons 2020)/ Wilk / Lowry / Lancaster 
Houston / 12th pick / Wake / Fackrell / another pick

drool

[JBURGE]

1 minute ago, Victor1124 said:

Hard pass on using 27 million in cap for the next two years on Wake and Houston. Id be okay with the rest of it. 

I changed Wake's, 1/8m. Houston is only 31, he is going to get 15m+ on the open market easily

[Victor1124]

18 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

I changed Wake's, 1/8m. Houston is only 31, he is going to get 15m+ on the open market easily

I really don't think Houston gets 15 million at all. Living in KC and watching every Chiefs game, Houston had a solid year but he is really beginning to slow down. His production looks decent but teams were really focusing on Dee Ford and Chris Jones a ton; when watching the game, it seemed like he would disappear for long periods of time. It is kind of like how we view Randall Cobb to an extent; he had a really good year a few years ago, is solid when he actually plays, and is only 28 years old. I am a huge Justin Houston fan and always regretted we didn't take him in the first back in 2011 but people around here are acting like he is the Houston of 5 years ago, he hasn't had double digit sacks(although close) in 4 years.

The Chiefs need to extend guys but there is a reason a team very close to the Superbowl and needs a defensive help is willing to let a 31 year old pass rusher walk. I know the market is inflating everyone's contracts but I would have a tough time paying Houston over 10 million a year IMO. I would rather try and sign Shaq Barrett plus another free agent than spend 15 million a year on Houston. I would take a guy like Wake or Houston at a reasonable contract but wouldn't want both. 

 

[SSG]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Our offense wasn't even that bad this year...the overreaction needs to stop.  Were they as good as they usually are?  No, but the notion that the Packers had some mediocre offense last year needs to die a painful death.

Overreaction?  Our offense was held to 7 or fewer points last year in 11 HALVES of football.  ELEVEN.  That's more than 1/3 of the season where the offense was completely worthless.  

• Minnesota week 2.  Our defense scored just as many TDs as our offense that day.  The offense pissed the game down their leg in the second half needing Crosby to account for 100% of their second half points.
• Washington week 3. 17 points against a mediocre Washington Defense.  Another disgusting performance in the second half with just 7 points.
• Buffalo, Week 4. Another disgusting second half where they only managed 6 points.  
• Detroit, Week 5.  Zero first half points.  Detroit's defense had 4 halves of shutout football last year and 3 of them came against Green Bay.
• New England week 8. 7 second half points.
• Seattle, Week 10. 3 second half points in a close game  
• Minnesota, week 11. 3 second half points (and those came with less than 2 minutes remaining)
• Arizona. Week 12. 7 second half points in a game in which the worst team in the NFL came into Green Bay and dominated our offense.  Disgusting.
• Chicago. Week 14.... 3 first half points.  
• Detroit, Week 16... zero points.  Aaron Rodgers or no Aaron Rodgers..... We were laughed off our own field as Detroit caved our heads in for the 4th time in a row.

If that's an acceptable offense, then we have entirely different definitions of what acceptable is.  There were winnable games last year that our defense kept us in but we were unable to capitalize because of the absolute ineptness of our offense. 

Our offense was every bit as responsible for last year's season as our defense.  There is no overreaction.  I'm not going to ignore what happened on the field because of what a ranking says or box score says.  That 500 yard game in the first meeting against Detroit improves that ranking when in reality those yards meant nothing because it took our offense 36 minutes before it was able to get into the endzone against a team that gave up 48 points to the Jets in their HOME opener.  

[smetana34]

40 minutes ago, SSG said:

You never know.  Amari Cooper, a mediocre starting WR, was just traded for a first rounder.  If Cooper is worth a first then Antonio Brown, one of the most talented WRs in NFL history, might be worth an entire draft.  

At least Cooper was still on a rookie contract and had shown some decent tape. Still only 25 years old