.Buzz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I'm not sure Kessler actually is a competent backup league-wide. I'd put him somewhere in the vicinity of bottom-5, maybe bottom-10 if we're being generous and optimistic about him because he's still youngish. There are some backups i'd have taken Kessler over, but not too many. It's not like there's was a massive bidding war for this great backup's services among other teams either - we got him for barely anything. But it goes back to context. If you've got a firmly entrenched franchise QB starter that you've built around...maybe Kessler is "enough", and on an attractively cheap deal. But we didn't have that. We had a starter in Bortles who was still in a very precarious spot that could absolutely go sideways at any moment. You need a better backup plan in that scenario. That depth position becomes more critical by context, because you're likelier to need it, and an inadequate backup plan can tank your season. Instead, they went with someone who is completely non-threatening to Bortles job security to avoid any sort of "QB controversy". Non-threatening to the point that, as we've seen...they have zero desire to ever play this backup plan, no matter how badly Bortles continues to play. Which is pretty much the ultimate condemnation of Kessler as a backup at this point. And really shows how they really see Kessler as a "backup plan". He was ranked on a list or two as a top 10 backup coming into the season. Not sure how you can really say he's bottom 5. He looked competent with the Browns when he was tossed into the fire before. He's young and has a quick release with some upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Also, they just paid Bortles. They clearly weren't going for someone to threaten Bortles job security. Right or wrong is one thing, but we did have competent depth behind him as a backup regardless. If you think we should have had another legit starting caliber QB that's a whole different argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Hurns, Ivory, and Marcedes wouldn't have done much to help us besides maybe pad our injury list. And Robinson didn't want to be here. He wanted to be in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, .Buzz said: He was ranked on a list or two as a top 10 backup coming into the season. Not sure how you can really say he's bottom 5. He looked competent with the Browns when he was tossed into the fire before. He's young and has a quick release with some upside. Where? USA Today had him 18 YardBarker had him 17 Bleacher Report had him 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: Hurns, Ivory, and Marcedes wouldn't have done much to help us besides maybe pad our injury list. And Robinson didn't want to be here. He wanted to be in Chicago. 7 minutes ago, pwny said: Some of the moves as singular moves made sense to a certain degree. But them doing so while also not having a safety net in place is the problem. Sure, let them go. But maybe do something other than let them go and pretend like there's nothing you can do to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jags Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 We could've traded up for Lamar Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, pwny said: Where? USA Today had him 18 YardBarker had him 17 Bleacher Report had him 14 Guess I was wrong. Thought he was higher on BR's. Regardless, based on that he's viewed as a middle of the road NFL backup. He's young and did ok in an awful circumstance in Cleveland so there's definitely reason to believe he could be competent if called upon for a stretch...which is what you expect from a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Keep playing Blake and continue the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, pwny said: Sure, let them go. But maybe do something other than let them go and pretend like there's nothing you can do to replace them. They signed ASJ to come in and take the place of Marcedes. How didn't they do anything to replace them? They expected young guys to do what you expect them to do, take the next step after a rookie season. They also drafted a WR in round 2 and signed a guy in FA to replace the WR's. Obviously talent wise it was downhill from ARob, he was the top WR on the market. But he also didn't sound as if he wanted to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, pwny said: Sure, let them go. But maybe do something other than let them go and pretend like there's nothing you can do to replace them. I mean, they brought in guys at their positions (sans RB before midseason which I think everyone agreed didn't make sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, .Buzz said: He was ranked on a list or two as a top 10 backup coming into the season. Not sure how you can really say he's bottom 5. He looked competent with the Browns when he was tossed into the fire before. He's young and has a quick release with some upside. I don't know what lists these were, but i don't like them. He may be young and have a quick release, but he's also got a wet noodle for an arm. He's got no upside beyond "cheap, developing backup". He looked competent briefly with the Browns, before looking totally incompetent and then being moved because the Browns wanted much better QB plans and better backup plans. He's probably "competent". But that's different than being a viable backup plan. 16 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Also, they just paid Bortles. They clearly weren't going for someone to threaten Bortles job security. Right or wrong is one thing, but we did have competent depth behind him as a backup regardless. If you think we should have had another legit starting caliber QB that's a whole different argument. This is true, and the real crux of the issue. Regardless of where we go back and forth on what we personally view Kessler as...It's where their own feelings about Kessler as a backup plan really show through, and continue to show through today. They didn't want to bring in a viable Plan B at quarterback here to be a "backup plan". They wanted to bring in a completely non-threatening Kessler for cheap, and ride or die with Bortles to the end. And that's exactly what they did. Kessler is a guy they brought in with the intention of letting the season live or die solely on Bortles hand. Kessler isn't a "capable backup plan"...he's a, "guy we'll play if Bortles gets injured and we have no other choice i guess". Willfully forgoing a competitive backup plan doesn't make it copacetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, .Buzz said: Just put Harrison in and we're good. Exactly, no need to waste another pick by moving up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I don't know what lists these were, but i don't like them. He may be young and have a quick release, but he's also got a wet noodle for an arm. He's got no upside beyond "cheap, developing backup". He looked competent briefly with the Browns, before looking totally incompetent and then being moved because the Browns wanted much better QB plans and better backup plans. He's probably "competent". But that's different than being a viable backup plan. This is true, and the real crux of the issue. It's where their own feelings about Kessler as a backup plan really show through, and continue to show through today. They didn't want to bring in a viable Plan B at quarterback here to be a "backup plan". They wanted to bring in a completely non-threatening Kessler for cheap, and ride or die with Bortles to the end. And that's exactly what they did. Kessler is a guy they brought in with the intention of letting the season live or die solely on Bortles hand. Kessler isn't a "capable backup plan"...he's a, "guy we'll play if Bortles gets injured and we have no other choice i guess". Willfully forgoing a competitive backup plan doesn't make it copacetic. Again, how many teams have backup QB's that you look at and view as a viable backup plan to your starting QB ****ting the bed or getting hurt besides the teams that are getting ready to move on from a veteran guy in the next couple years and drafted a guy round 1 or 2 that end up just taking the reigns? He is/was most definitely a "viable backup" in the NFL. As a backup NFL QB, he's definitely a solid option if you need a guy for a couple games compared to the rest of the NFL as those lists indicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 I get criticizing the team and obviously at 3-8 and basically a decade of ineptitude, there should be criticism. but acting like a lot of what they do isn't the exact same thing pretty much every other NFL team does is a bit off the mark, imo. 99% of what NFL teams do is reactionary. 99% of draft selections are done with both the present and the future in mind. 99% of teams move on from players (a lot of times prematurely, even) especially if they aren't elite players at the expense of the unknown (ie: turning to younger players and/or looking to replace or stopgap through other methods). No team plans to have this amount of injuries, especially not over and over with the same position groups. It's frustrating, but we've gotten hit a lot on offense with injuries with an offense that already wasn't too great. A lot of those guys we wanted to step up, haven't. The DC and especially the OC have had too many poor games. The QB died after week 4 and has yet to rise back up. This is a losing formula. Even if we had been healthy all year, we'd probably be a similar record or ~.500 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, .Buzz said: They signed ASJ to come in and take the place of Marcedes. How didn't they do anything to replace them? The signed ASJ after they picked up Marcedes' option and only let go of Marcedes because he asked to be paid more. The initial idea seemed to be that Marcedes was supposed to be the #2, and therefore I wouldn't call what they did finding a replacement? 5 minutes ago, .Buzz said: They expected young guys to do what you expect them to do, take the next step after a rookie season. They also drafted a WR in round 2 and signed a guy in FA to replace the WR's. Obviously talent wise it was downhill from ARob, he was the top WR on the market. But he also didn't sound as if he wanted to be here. So let me ask a serious question. During the offseason, I said that this was a terrible plan. I noted that there was a serious problem expecting Dede and Cole to make the strides that were expected of them. I noted that expecting Moncrief to take on a larger role was a mistake. I said expecting Lee to stay healthy was a fool's errand. I said that any expectations for an unpolished rookie were foolhardy. Tuggy said the exact same things. So why are we pretending like what happened this season with these receivers wasn't completely predictable and that I have just pretend like they did the right thing and that it just didn't work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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