OROY

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

What does facing opponents with winning records prove? You should have went vs. top passing defenses, you would have had mostly the same result with Baker. It would have really hurt the comparison to Goff though. Besides the first Bengal game Baker hasn't had it easy. He is making tough throws, throws I don't even like to see him make. It's working for the most part but it is asking too much for any NFL QB. He is probably plus 90% on his accuracy, we've struggled to see 60% in a Browns QB so maybe it is just a shock to the system.

What does facing good teams prove? It proves you can beat good teams. Good teams usually put pressure on their opposition either through having a strong defense that keeps them off the board or a strong offense that puts pressure on the opposition to score to keep up. Baker's big games have come against teams like the Falcons and Bengals.

3 hours ago, pnies20 said:

Lets just get one thing straight... I’m definitely not in the camp that says he played better than Ben, Brady, Goff etc. but you need to watch the throws he’s made. He’s certainly not a game manager. He’s made some ridiculous throws on par with anything mahomes has done this year. That’s NOT saying he’s as good as _______. Just that you’re underestimating him. He’s a boss.

I've watched him play a number of times. Making ridiculous throws is great. It is a positive indicator for the future. But the top guys are the top guys because of their consistency.

[minutemancl]

Baker has had a great rookie season. He's head and shoulders above the other rookie QBs and it looks even better as he is doing it as a member of the Browns. But Barkley's rookie season has been historical. He's going to set the record for receptions as a rookie RB (needs 2). He needs 114 yards for 2000 YFS as a rookie, which has been done only twice before- by Edge and Eric Dickerson. There is hardly any justification for Baker over Barkley for this award. 

[buno67]

4 hours ago, childofpudding said:

Barkley has been fantastic as well. Not only is he 3rd in YFS behind Elliot and McCaffrey, but he's also 3rd in percentage of team YFS, behind Elliot and David Johnson, with 36% of the team's yards coming from Barkley. He's also 7th in YFS for a rookie with a game still to go - most likely he'll end up 3rd or 4th all-time there.

Earlier poster said both should share it, and I agree.

Personally I want Baker to not win it. Just so it puts another chip on his shoulder. Dude loves being doubted. 

[pnies20]

25 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

What does facing good teams prove? It proves you can beat good teams. Good teams usually put pressure on their opposition either through having a strong defense that keeps them off the board or a strong offense that puts pressure on the opposition to score to keep up. Baker's big games have come against teams like the Falcons and Bengals.

I've watched him play a number of times. Making ridiculous throws is great. It is a positive indicator for the future. But the top guys are the top guys because of their consistency.

So then we agree. 

But to the bolded and for the sake of conversation... Goff? Mahomes? They aren't far removed from the draft/bench. If it weren't for hue, terrible calls by the refs and some god awful kicking, Baker would be taking the Browns into the playoffs and there would be different excuses being made.

But I Get it... its the Browns. Keep em in the basement.

[mistakey]

7 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Baker has had a great rookie season. He's head and shoulders above the other rookie QBs and it looks even better as he is doing it as a member of the Browns. But Barkley's rookie season has been historical. He's going to set the record for receptions as a rookie RB (needs 2). He needs 114 yards for 2000 YFS as a rookie, which has been done only twice before- by Edge and Eric Dickerson. There is hardly any justification for Baker over Barkley for this award. 

baker is 2 TD from tying manning and wilson for record number of TD passes thrown by a rookie, yet theres hardly any justification for baker?


also furthermore
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25621708/2018-nfl-regular-season-awards-bill-barnwell-picks-mvp-players-year-best-rookies-plays

 

Quote

At the same time, Barkley's efficiency numbers are awful. He ranks 37th in the league in success rate as a runner out of 45 qualifying backs. Much of what he gains can be empty calories; 60.4 percent of his carries have yielded negative plays by ESPN's model, the 10th-most in football. If we define garbage time as possessions that start with no more than a 5 percent chance of ending in a victory by win expectancy, Barkley's 288 yards from scrimmage in garbage time is third behind Jalen Richard and Joe Mixon. I don't doubt that Barkley makes the offense better, of course, but in 80 pass attempts, Manning has posted a superior completion percentage, yards per attempt, passer rating and Total QBR with Barkley on the sideline as opposed to lining up alongside the former Penn State star.

 

 

[Thomas5737]

31 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

What does facing good teams prove? It proves you can beat good teams. Good teams usually put pressure on their opposition either through having a strong defense that keeps them off the board or a strong offense that puts pressure on the opposition to score to keep up. Baker's big games have come against teams like the Falcons and Bengals.

Yeah those Falcons were on a 3 game winning streak when we met up with them. The Broncos and Panthers were fighting for a playoff spot. The Bengals were in 2nd in the division the first time we played them. 4 out of our last 5 easy wins (6 games total) were against teams at .500 or better at the time.

[jrry32]

8 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

So then we agree. 

But to the bolded and for the sake of conversation... Goff? Mahomes? They aren't far removed from the draft/bench. If it weren't for hue, terrible calls by the refs and some god awful kicking, Baker would be taking the Browns into the playoffs and there would be different excuses being made.

But I Get it... its the Browns. Keep em in the basement.

Goff and Mahomes have been consistent players this year. Yeah, people totally are rooting against the Browns.

3 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah those Falcons were on a 3 game winning streak when we met up with them. The Broncos and Panthers were fighting for a playoff spot. The Bengals were in 2nd in the division the first time we played them. 4 out of our last 5 easy wins (6 games total) were against teams at .500 or better at the time.

The Falcons are 6-9. The Bengals are 6-9. The Panthers are 6-9. The Broncos are 6-9.

[Kip Smithers]

22 minutes ago, mistakey said:

baker is 2 TD from tying manning and wilson for record number of TD passes thrown by a rookie, yet theres hardly any justification for baker?


also furthermore
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25621708/2018-nfl-regular-season-awards-bill-barnwell-picks-mvp-players-year-best-rookies-plays

A huge part of the praise Barkley gets is due to what he does in spite of largely poor run blocking. Barkley ain’t perfect but his ability to create more with less is amazing 

[AkronsWitness]

13 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Wentz still played better then Baker with a Gimpy Knee and Broke back. 

Stats below with 2 less games. Whatever you're smoking, Pass it. Put it down! Before you get hurt or hurt someone else. Thanks

When hes actually on the field healthy.....again think whatever you want. Everybodies entitled to their opinion

 

[Thomas5737]

11 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

The Falcons are 6-9. The Bengals are 6-9. The Panthers are 6-9. The Broncos are 6-9.

 

Yeah, after we essentially ended their seasons they tanked.

 

12 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Goff and Mahomes have been consistent players this year. Yeah, people totally are rooting against the Browns.

Goff has more below 70 ratings in the last 4 weeks than Mayfield has in his career. 2 TD, 6 INTs and 5 fumbles in his last 4 games and he is your model of consistency? No, his highs have been higher than Mayfield but his lows have clearly been lower.

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

 

Yeah, after we essentially ended their seasons they tanked.

 

Goff has more below 70 ratings in the last 4 weeks than Mayfield has in his career. 2 TD, 6 INTs and 5 fumbles in his last 4 games and he is your model of consistency? No, his highs have been higher than Mayfield but his lows have clearly been lower.

Jared Goff has posted a passer rating of 100+ in 9 of 15 games this year. And unlike Baker, all of Goff's good/great games haven't come against teams with losing records and below average to bad defenses. You're going to need to come with a better argument. Baker isn't in Goff's league right now.

[Shady Slim]

31 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

The Falcons are 6-9. The Bengals are 6-9. The Panthers are 6-9. The Broncos are 6-9.

 

[AkronsWitness]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Jared Goff has posted a passer rating of 100+ in 9 of 15 games this year. And unlike Baker, all of Goff's good/great games haven't come against teams with losing records and below average to bad defenses. You're going to need to come with a better argument. Baker isn't in Goff's league right now.

To @Thomas5737 exact point, Goffs highs have been higher but lows have been lower. You spoke about consistency and Goffs last few weeks have been proof he is not the poster boy for that. Also, to my above post, there are only 7 QBs in the NFL this year that have a higher offensive rating than Baker and Goff isnt one one them. He has been absolutely atrocious the past 4-5 weeks of the season that dragged all of his early success numbers down.

[jrry32]

20 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

To @Thomas5737 exact point, Goffs highs have been higher but lows have been lower. You spoke about consistency and Goffs last few weeks have been proof he is not the poster boy for that. Also, to my above post, there are only 7 QBs in the NFL this year that have a higher offensive rating than Baker and Goff isnt one one them. He has been absolutely atrocious the past 4-5 weeks of the season that dragged all of his early success numbers down.

And your numbers are from PFF's joke of a grading system (the same grading system that ranks Todd Gurley as the #16 HB in the NFL and Zeke Elliott as the #29 HB in the NFL loooooooooool). Also, Thomas's exact point is wrong. Baker padded his stats late in games against Pittsburgh and Houston in garbage time to make them appear better than they were. Goff has been consistently great. A couple bad games don't change that. Fact is the Rams are averaging around 32 PPG this year. The Browns have scored 30+ points in a game only twice all year. Baker isn't in Goff's league right now, and I laugh at anybody who thinks he is. I also laugh at anybody who thinks he's as good or better than Wentz, Big Ben, etc. You have to be one massive homer to believe that.

[AkronsWitness]

26 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And your numbers are from PFF's joke of a grading system (the same grading system that ranks Todd Gurley as the #16 HB in the NFL and Zeke Elliott as the #29 HB in the NFL loooooooooool). Also, Thomas's exact point is wrong. Baker padded his stats late in games against Pittsburgh and Houston in garbage time to make them appear better than they were. Goff has been consistently great. A couple bad games don't change that. Fact is the Rams are averaging around 32 PPG this year. The Browns have scored 30+ points in a game only twice all year. Baker isn't in Goff's league right now, and I laugh at anybody who thinks he is. I also laugh at anybody who thinks he's as good or better than Wentz, Big Ben, etc. You have to be one massive homer to believe that.

Right, Goffs 2 TDs and a combined 11 INTs/Fumbles in the past 4 weeks have been stellar.