MookieMonstah Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 He didn't just look bad, he looked terrible. Jumper was meh, no post moves, slowest feet I've ever seen. I don't know if it was just nerves but he looked utterly useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 hour ago, seminoles1 said: Maybe I have a strict definition of superstar, but Irving isn't close to one. He's made only 1 All-NBA Team in his career (It was 3rd team, so only once was he considered even the 5th or 6th best guard in a given season), he's never received a single MVP vote (when some really average players have done so), and his overall impact for his team is incredibly questionable. You better be ready to list off a lot of superstars if you think Irving is a superstar with those parameters, including Kevin Love. There might be 5 or 6 superstars in the NBA right now. Irving wouldn't even approach those 5 players to me, or the 5 players after them. If you can't even be considered a consensus top 10 player in the NBA, you aren't even close to a superstar. Tell me who you'd take him over among these players (I could see arguments for a few, but there's at least 11 that are pretty clearly better IMO): LeBron James Kevin Durant Stephen Curry Kawhi Leonard James Harden Russell Westbrook Anthony Davis Jimmy Butler Paul George Chris Paul John Wall Giannis Antetokounmpo Damian Lillard DeMarcus Cousins Gordon Hayward You've got others that are only omitted because of injury (Blake Griffin) or youth (Karl-Anthony Towns). Irving has his shot now; let's see if he can improve and put himself among that top 10 this season. This list is clearly you reaching. How is Damian Lillard clearly a better player than Kyrie Irving? Also, in what world is Gordon Hayward a better player than Kyrie Irving? I would take Kyrie Irving over Paul George and Jimmy Butler. Sure, you could say Russell Westbrook is a better player, but today I'm taking Kyrie Irving over him. I think John Wall and Irving are really close - I can accept Wall being listed over Irving more than I can accept Westbrook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 A superstar should be able to win some games when the other star sits. Kyrie is 4-18 without Lebron the last 3 years. He defiantly has super star skills but he hasn't put it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 How many of those games did K-Love also miss though? And to be fair, the Cleveland roster is pretty awful outside of the Big 3 they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, showtime said: This list is clearly you reaching. How is Damian Lillard clearly a better player than Kyrie Irving? Also, in what world is Gordon Hayward a better player than Kyrie Irving? I would take Kyrie Irving over Paul George and Jimmy Butler. Sure, you could say Russell Westbrook is a better player, but today I'm taking Kyrie Irving over him. I think John Wall and Irving are really close - I can accept Wall being listed over Irving more than I can accept Westbrook. If you'd take Irving over Butler/George and Westbrook you clearly don't know what winning basketball or just talent in general looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iothar Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 John Wall is not better than Kyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Brown Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 minute ago, iothar said: John Wall is not better than Kyrie. He's much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: If you'd take Irving over Butler/George and Westbrook you clearly don't know what winning basketball or just talent in general looks like. What's the problem with taking Jimmy Butler or Paul George over Kyrie Irving? Saying that statement means I don't know what winning basketball or talent looks like? Think about that statement for a second and see how misguided you are. On the Russell Westbrook point - I am not a fan of his. He is an in-efficient chucker. Sure he puts up elite stats, but for me, stats don't tell the entire story. Westbrook is a fine player, but I would rather have both John Wall and Kyrie Irving over him. I'm sick and tired of people holding Kyrie Irving accountable for the Cavaliers not having a winning season during his first couple of seasons. I believe Irving was drafted at 19 years of age and was on the worst team in the NBA. A 19 year old Russell Westbrook and countless other players would not have led those Cavaliers teams to the postseason, either. Irving is a completely different player now than he was back then. Edited August 24, 2017 by showtime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, showtime said: What's the problem with taking Jimmy Butler or Paul George over Kyrie Irving? Saying that statement means I don't know what winning basketball or talent looks like? Think about that statement for a second and see how misguided you are. On the Russell Westbrook point - I am not a fan of his. He is an in-efficient chucker. Sure he puts up elite stats, but for me, stats don't tell the entire story. Westbrook is a fine player, but I would rather have both John Wall and Kyrie Irving over him. I'm sick and tired of people holding Kyrie Irving accountable for the Cavaliers not having a winning season during his first couple of seasons. I believe Irving was drafted at 19 years of age and was on the worst team in the NBA. A 19 year old Russell Westbrook and countless other players would not have led those Cavaliers teams to the postseason, either. Irving is a completely different player now than he was back then. I legitimately hate Russell Westbrook for the reasons you bring up. Except Kyrie is the exact way without any of the additional benefits Westy brings outside of scoring. He's better than Kyrie at literally everything except shooting and having fancier handles. The impact each brings to the game isn't in the same stratosphere. Regular stats, advanced stats, impact stats, eye test, doesn't matter which you choose Westbrook is simply on a completely different level. There is nothing wrong taking Butler and George over Irving, there is something wrong with the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Bullet Club said: This is naïve. Gold medals and sweet 16's don't mean anything. So he was a first overall pick in a terrible draft, winning rookie of the year in that same weak class. All star game MVP doesn't mean anything. He was going nowhere fast until LeBron showed up and allowed him to play his selfish brand of basketball on a team that would still win. Boston has no idea the level of selfishness and lack of impact that they'll be getting from Kyrie. OK how about averaging 29 and 27 PPG in the Finals on 47% shooting both years against the best team in the league? Winning one of those Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I legitimately hate Russell Westbrook for the reasons you bring up. Except Kyrie is the exact way without any of the additional benefits Westy brings outside of scoring. He's better than Kyrie at literally everything except shooting and having fancier handles. The impact each brings to the game isn't in the same stratosphere. Regular stats, advanced stats, impact stats, eye test, doesn't matter which you choose Westbrook is simply on a completely different level. There is nothing wrong taking Butler and George over Irving, there is something wrong with the reverse. I will concede the Russell Westbrook point because most people would take him over Kyrie Irving; however, why is Paul George so much better than Kyrie Irving to the point where it is unreasonable to take Irving over George? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said: OK how about averaging 29 and 27 PPG in the Finals on 47% shooting both years against the best team in the league? Winning one of those Finals. Wonder if that guy who nearly won both finals MVP's had anything to do with that. Helps when everyone is focusing their attention on the best player of our generation. 5 minutes ago, showtime said: I will concede the Russell Westbrook point because most people would take him over Kyrie Irving; however, why is Paul George so much better than Kyrie Irving to the point where it is unreasonable to take Irving over George? Because he plays both sides of the ball. Kyrie Irving is one of the five worst defensive guards in the NBA, just so happens that Thomas is probably literal worst. Paul George, while no longer at the level of his reputation, is still a very good defensive player capable of guarding 3-4 positions effectively. He's also a far less selfish offensive player. Even if you just break it down to meaningful individual accolades George is a 3xAll NBA 3rd team, 1xAll D 1st, 2xAll D 2nd and he came into the NBA a significantly worse player than Kyrie did while Kyrie has 1XAll NBA 3rd team to his name. Paul George was also a +9.3 on/off guy on a 42 win team as a #1 option. Irving was a +7.2 on a 51 win team playing with the best player in the world. Without LeBron on the floor, Kyrie's Cavs were outscored by 120 points in over 600 minutes and he still had Kevin Love for the majority of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifference Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Lmao @ Kyrie being better than Prince George. PG is a two way player for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 27 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Wonder if that guy who nearly won both finals MVP's had anything to do with that. Helps when everyone is focusing their attention on the best player of our generation. So why did Kevin Love shoot under 39% in both finals and only averaged 16 and 9 PPG. This a guy that has two years where he averaged more PPG than any season Kyrie has had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Just now, 11sanchez11 said: So why did Kevin Love shoot under 39% in both finals and only averaged 16 and 9 PPG. This a guy that has two years where he averaged more PPG than any season Kyrie has had. I don't think very highly of Kevin Love either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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