Trade Brown for what?

[AFF]

Honestly had crazy idea of maybe Philly...for say TE Dallas Goedert and a 1st.

If Philly was willing to do a 3rd for FA to be Golden Tate...maybe if they get rid of Foles for cap room and picks, it might work.

Would give Steelers TE of future, much bigger weapon than James and another pick.

[3rivers]

20 hours ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

Honestly had crazy idea of maybe Philly...for say TE Dallas Goedert and a 1st.

If Philly was willing to do a 3rd for FA to be Golden Tate...maybe if they get rid of Foles for cap room and picks, it might work.

Would give Steelers TE of future, much bigger weapon than James and another pick.

it's more crazy to let colbert and his staff draft with picks from a trade  from what I have seen in their drafting in recent time. It's a good idea to get a proven quality Vet considering how colbert has failed the draft too often in recent time.  The best WR in his prime should draw value,  and if they let him go for low value they deserve what they get.   If the GOAT can talk the 49ers into a good trade, that could help the value, but wait and see. 

[VigilantZombie]

So I was listening to a podcast and they posed to this question and I feel like it's actually a really interesting question. So I'm going to pose this question here and I don't believe I mean I know they're going to be some people here the absolutely immediately give an answer right away but I feel like it's actually something where there could be a good debate.

There is no denying that from a talent aspect the potential of losing both Le'Veon Bell in the Antonio Brown War affect the offense in a negative way in the short-term at least in terms of production.

Having said that considering all of the drama is black of leadership or we a better team in the long run without them?

 like I said the quick answer to this is no because your mind might immediately go to the level of talent that we are losing. But for me the answer is actually yes. The drama and media circus that surrounded Le'Veon Bell and now is surrounding Antonio Brown I just don't see how it does not create her distraction to the team and turmoil in the locker room. I feel like the elimination of that can only improve the camaraderie in the locker room. I feel like it could improve the focus and while yes from the talent aspect it is definitely a loss I feel like we can recover from that. Does it take us away from being a Super Bowl Contender I don't know maybe but I would argue given what we witnessed this past season with Ben losses go to trying to constantly force the Vault to engineer Brown who was getting frustrated that he wasn't getting the ball more and ended up throwing game impacting interceptions that the absence of in Daniel Brown May alleviate been from forcing the ball where he shouldn't. I think it will make things harder for Juju but if they do get another viable wide receiver perhaps we won't be that terrible off. For me I look at this as a leadership and drama aspect and for that reason I feel like yeah we could actually be a better team without them.

[Steeler Hitman]

28 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

So I was listening to a podcast and they posed to this question and I feel like it's actually a really interesting question. So I'm going to pose this question here and I don't believe I mean I know they're going to be some people here the absolutely immediately give an answer right away but I feel like it's actually something where there could be a good debate.

There is no denying that from a talent aspect the potential of losing both Le'Veon Bell in the Antonio Brown War affect the offense in a negative way in the short-term at least in terms of production.

Having said that considering all of the drama is a lack of leadership or we a better team in the long run without them?

 Like I said the quick answer to this is no because your mind might immediately go to the level of talent that we are losing. But for me the answer is actually yes. The drama and media circus that surrounded Le'Veon Bell and now is surrounding Antonio Brown, I just don't see how it does not create her distraction to the team and turmoil in the locker room. I feel like the elimination of that can only improve the camaraderie in the locker room. I feel like it could improve the focus and while yes from the talent aspect it is definitely a loss I feel like we can recover from that. Does it take us away from being a Super Bowl Contender I don't know maybe but I would argue given what we witnessed this past season with Ben losses go to trying to constantly force the Vault to engineer Brown who was getting frustrated that he wasn't getting the ball more and ended up throwing game impacting interceptions that the absence of in Daniel Brown May alleviate been from forcing the ball where he shouldn't. I think it will make things harder for Ju Ju but if they do get another viable wide receiver perhaps we won't be that terrible off. For me I look at this as a leadership and drama aspect and for that reason I feel like yeah we could actually be a better team without them.

I will answer you question, but I must vent a bit. Again....

It really ultimately depends on what the Steelers want to do.  I have been thinking about this. Relationships sometimes go south and depending on the participants can or cannot be salvaged.  I do believe that both players (Bell and AB) have some animosity towards Coach T.  The sad thing is they took it out on the team and organization instead of going into the coaches office and hashing it out.  It is rumored that Bell lost some respect when the Steelers put out that he missed the team walk through prior to losing the play-off game to the Jaguars last year.  

We don't know what was or was not said behind closed doors, but we see the behavior and social media antics that both AB and Bell have employed.  There may be no crying in baseball, but football is an emotional game and players cry or get caught up in their feelings. Do I give them a pass? No.  Both Bell and AB would have most every fan and media support had they conducted themselves with more maturity and professionalism. AB has done some things in the media, on social media and some of his on field antics that cost the team penalties during celebrations that raised they eyes of some who said then, Coach T needs to get a handle on this. Having money, power, fame and being at the top of your game will inflate your ego if you are not careful.  Although, they get no free pass, If either showed that they "get it"and could talk out their issues, I may be willing to take them. I hesitate in saying that, but I would keep the option open in the event that I couldn't get anything worth while in a trade for AB.  The team may still sign Bell as a Transition Tag and then try to sign and trade him.  That is just being business savvy.  Personally, I would be happy with Connors, Samuels and adding another veteran or drafting another RB.

As far as Coach T, he has his share of the blame to shoulder as well. Some of the issues of playing down to the competition hurt this teams chance at the play-offs and was probably the straw that broke the camels back so to speak with not making the play-offs. He was the captain of a ship that sunk like the Titanic hitting an ice-Burgh (pun intended). A tie in Cleveland, poor defense against the Chiefs, a pitiful effort at home against the Ravens, missed opportunities against the Bronco's, poor effort and player mis-management against the Raiders, a comeback loss to SD, a poorly reffed game and untimely turnover against the Saints, and a meltdown at practice the final week against the Bengals brought the Steelers to this point.  Comments by Big Ben on a radio show against other players dropping passes, running the wrong route and stating that "I'm a gunslinger." You threw for over 5000 yards and had 34 TD's, but also threw 16 INT's and missed on some wide open opportunities as well. AB throwing hissy fits on the sideline again. The L. Bell drama being at the forefront instead of cutting it completely. All great teams have had drama. It is heightened more now with social media.  The great teams cover it up by winning.

It is always easier to point the finger at someone else's mistakes than to look at your own behavior.  It seems that most everyone else is pointing fingers at someone else. I haven't read were Coach T blamed anyone else.  Mr. Rooney saying that there is no drama on the team and other players saying that there is, gives the organization a very black eye. There is certainly plenty of fault to go around.  Football is still a team game.  The Steelers have proven that individuals can't win championships despite having a tremendously talented offensive Big Three that has not achieved their ultimate goal.  You have arguably the best overall/versatile  RB, the top WR and a HOF/SB winning QB. Short of major injuries, this group should never miss the play-offs.

Adversity can unite or tear you apart and it seems that the adversity has done the later to the Steelers in 2018. It's sad because I believe that the ownership/team has shown every level of financial commitment to BB, AB, and Bell. As you stated these three have fallen short in the maturity, being great teammates and in the leadership department. A lot of this nonsense is policed within the locker room by strong team leaders, not the coach or owners.  We have discussed this in other threads over the past several years.  We don't have a Mean Joe Green, Jack Lambert, Kevin Greene, Rod Woodson or Greg Lloyd from a leadership standpoint.  These players said and did things as players, but most of it was contained within the locker room and not the media. I get there was no FB live, Twitter and other social media outlets back then, but players seemed to keep more issues among themselves.

The Steelers are not the first team to have drama and disgruntled stars.  Regardless of what happens going forward, conversations need to be had.  It is a matter of it is to go forward or to cut ties.  If winning is truly what it is all about, then you should have the best opportunity together.  I do not believe that Big Ben is as effective without AB,  nor is AB is as effective without Big Ben, nor will Bell be as effective without the Steelers OL and the threat of AB receiving and Ben''s passing. 

I don't know if it is salvageable or if I even want to continue down this path with all of the drama with these three. You have to make a financial commitment to keep Ben. Do I continue to try to keep a mouthy AB and Bell who wants to get paid as well? Going forward with Ju Ju and Washington will not be as effective as having AB, just like having Connor was not always as effective as having Bell in his first year. 

Short term it will hurt just as I believe losing Santonio Holmes hurt the team in 2010. I believe if the team had kept Holmes, they probably come back against the Packers on that last drive, but Mike Wallace was not the overall WR Holmes was. The Steelers WR's have thrived in every SB win except IX. In SB's X, XIII, XIV, XL, and XLIII (Swann, Stallworth, Ward, and Holmes) all played vital roles in winning.  In the losses to Dallas and GB, the top WR's didn't have as much of an impact (Hastings and Wallace) and the turnovers contributed as well.  Maybe they can sign a short term veteran or hit another WR home run as they have with Brown, Ju Ju, Bryant and hopefully Washington.

While Coach T and Mr. Colbert have received draft criticism, it appears that they have been drafting for character more than outright ability in the past several drafts:

2018 Edmonds and Washington

2017 Watt and Ju Ju

2016 Burns and Davis

2015 Bud and Sequez Golson

2014 Shazier and Tuitt

In each of these drafts, there were other players that most draft experts had rated higher.

The million dollar question is: Is the juice worth the squeeze with one or all three of these players?  Winning Super Bowls cures a lot of ills and drama.  That is ultimately the problem here: falling short year after year for various reasons and now the finger pointing has started by all involved: We win this game if rookie James Washington catches my perfectly thrown long pass.  You missed me streaking across the middle wide open and threw an interception instead.  I deserve to be paid like a #2 WR.  And we can go on and on. The culture in that locker room is bad because this stuff is spilling over in the media.  That should never happen.  Our biggest rival has been in position to win a SB the past eight seasons and got to a few beating our butts on the way.  Hogan and White have more rings than Bell and AB.

You can't win if you don't play together. If they can't figure it out, then it is time to break this thing up and move on.  Mason Rudolph is not Big Ben, Ju Ju and Washington are not AB and Connors is not Bell.  That may not be a bad thing when all is said and done. Realistically we need two or all three of those components to win NOW.  The Steelers are  a STRONGER team (weapons wise) with Ben, AB and Bell. However, they are not necessarily a BETTER team (winning and morale wise).

 

[Forge]

TMZ is reporting that Brown was involved in a domestic incident in January, though no arrests were made. Doesn't seem serious, but could impact the suitors available. I can't see the 49ers taking a chance on that kind of situation again so soon after Foster, so they are probably out if there's even a grain of truth to it. 

[warfelg]

27 minutes ago, Forge said:

TMZ is reporting that Brown was involved in a domestic incident in January, though no arrests were made. Doesn't seem serious, but could impact the suitors available. I can't see the 49ers taking a chance on that kind of situation again so soon after Foster, so they are probably out if there's even a grain of truth to it. 

I'll start this next statement by saying I'm highly skeptical about this, but: it was relayed to me Brown started to want out a while ago, and some of this odd 'behavior' is manufactured to make the Steelers want to cut him.

[Big Snack]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

I'll start this next statement by saying I'm highly skeptical about this, but: it was relayed to me Brown started to want out a while ago, and some of this odd 'behavior' is manufactured to make the Steelers want to cut him.

Not the 1st time i have heard that this week. True or not it is the word making the rounds.

[VigilantZombie]

46 minutes ago, Big Snack said:

Not the 1st time i have heard that this week. True or not it is the word making the rounds.

Except given the cap hit there's no way in hell they would just flat-out cut him. Trading him and getting something in return is one thing but to just cut him that's simply not going to happen I do believe that he is intentionally pushing buttons and I think that in the end he's going to look stupid

[Big Snack]

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Except given the cap hit there's no way in hell they would just flat-out cut him. Trading him and getting something in return is one thing but to just cut him that's simply not going to happen I do believe that he is intentionally pushing buttons and I think that in the end he's going to look stupid

I agree we will not out right cut him. The rumor is brown is trying to get cut.

[AFF]

AB to Bucs for a 2nd rd pick, 3rd pick and WR Godwin.

[muncher]

i wish AB would come out with his 'interview' already

i actually like all the drama now. hated it to start the season but have grown to enjoy the entertainment

 

[VigilantZombie]

39 minutes ago, Big Snack said:

I agree we will not out right cut him. The rumor is brown is trying to get cut.

I believe that to be true. Le'Veon Bell basically did the same thing he threw a hissy fit in forced the hand of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He gave them nothing and in return we will get nothing unless we transition tag in and as much as of an annoyance as it would be it would be somewhat comical 2C Le'Veon Bell who pretty much made every attempt to get himself cut made sure that the team could not trade him and all of that jazz it would be ironic and comical to see us transition tag him in to trade him and essentially control his Destiny on where he gets to play football.

[VigilantZombie]

Also a large part of me wonders whether or not this domestic dispute news involving Antonio Brown is fake and if the person that leaked it might be Antonio Brown himself in an attempt to make himself untradeable. I know that's a really big reach but man I'm not sure it's above and Antonio Brown at this point

[Forge]

5 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Also a large part of me wonders whether or not this domestic dispute news involving Antonio Brown is fake and if the person that leaked it might be Antonio Brown himself in an attempt to make himself untradeable. I know that's a really big reach but man I'm not sure it's above and Antonio Brown at this point

The Hollywood police confirmed they responded to a domestic dispute involving Brown, so definitely not fake. Doesn't seem like it was a big deal, but just another thing, you know?

[warfelg]

7 hours ago, Forge said:

The Hollywood police confirmed they responded to a domestic dispute involving Brown, so definitely not fake. Doesn't seem like it was a big deal, but just another thing, you know?

We're not saying the call itself was fake, rather what lead to it was more manufactured than real.