AlexGreen#20 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 49 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said: If coaches are only 2% of the equation, why do most coaches fail then? NFL coaches have more influence on the game than other sport #coachingmatters Because talent is concentrated and coaches only keep their job is they're winning 2/3 of their games and Superbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, TheBitzMan said: If coaches are only 2% of the equation, why do most coaches fail then? NFL coaches have more influence on the game than other sport #coachingmatters How many coaches that "fail" are fired because they don't have talent at key positions- i.e QB. I would guess that many coaches get fired due to a poor scouting system. 2 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Yeah, if coaches were only 2% of the equation, more than 6% of coaches in NFL history would have won a Super Bowl. Exactly- by now we should have had what- 100 coaches that have won the superbowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Exactly- by now we should have what, 100 coaches that have won the superbowl When 52 Super Bowls have been won by 31 head coaches, there's really no spot for sarcasm. Only 23 head coaches have been to multiple Super Bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Outpost31 said: When 52 Super Bowls have been won by 31 head coaches, there's really no spot for sarcasm. Only 23 head coaches have been to multiple Super Bowls. This has sort of been explained though. If you have talent, you win, if you win, you keep your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Norm said: This has sort of been explained though. If you have talent, you win, if you win, you keep your job. It doesn't tell the whole story though. Doug Pederson is a perfect example of this. His MVP QB goes down with three weeks to go in the regular season and still wins a Super Bowl. Good coaches overachieve with their roster. Bad coaches underachieve. Look at the talented teams Andy Reid has had, still hasn't won a Super Bowl, still has kept his job. He's had how many legitimate chances at a Super Bowl with legitimately talented teams and he has no rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 37 minutes ago, Norm said: This has sort of been explained though. If you have talent, you win, if you win, you keep your job. You could probably lean talent a little more than coaching, but its not by much. Scheming in this game is very important, the best coached teams will have great schemes and get the most out of your below average players all the way up to your most talented players and put them in the best position to succeed in their system. If you don't have that balance you probably aren't gonna be a great team. You could probably look to the "Dream team" for the Eagles that one season and how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: How many coaches that "fail" are fired because they don't have talent at key positions- i.e QB. I would guess that many coaches get fired due to a poor scouting system. I mean that's all well and good. You need talent to succeed but to say coaching is only 2% of a team's success is a complete fabrication. Football isn't just about the 22 players on the field and their talent level so many other things go into wins & losses than just talent level. I was never pushing against the talent aspect of success, I am arguing against a coach only have a 2% impact on a team's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 59 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It doesn't tell the whole story though. Doug Pederson is a perfect example of this. His MVP QB goes down with three weeks to go in the regular season and still wins a Super Bowl. Good coaches overachieve with their roster. Bad coaches underachieve. Look at the talented teams Andy Reid has had, still hasn't won a Super Bowl, still has kept his job. He's had how many legitimate chances at a Super Bowl with legitimately talented teams and he has no rings. If you believe in probability and odds, your argument about superbowl wins falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, TheBitzMan said: I mean that's all well and good. You need talent to succeed but to say coaching is only 2% of a team's success is a complete fabrication. Football isn't just about the 22 players on the field and their talent level so many other things go into wins & losses than just talent level. I was never pushing against the talent aspect of success, I am arguing against a coach only have a 2% impact on a team's success. If a HC's positive impact is no greater than 2%.....only time you'd have to fire the guy is if he killed somebody, committed some heinous crime or was continually sending the punt team out on 2nd down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Now do "former New England Patriots assistant coaches". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: It doesn't tell the whole story though. Doug Pederson is a perfect example of this. His MVP QB goes down with three weeks to go in the regular season and still wins a Super Bowl. I think you're severely underestimating Nick Foles. If you look at some of his contemporaries within 1 point of career passer rating.... Would you be so blown away with.... And he did it with Luck, Carr, or Stafford at QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Outpost31 said: It doesn't tell the whole story though. Doug Pederson is a perfect example of this. His MVP QB goes down with three weeks to go in the regular season and still wins a Super Bowl. Good coaches overachieve with their roster. Bad coaches underachieve. Look at the talented teams Andy Reid has had, still hasn't won a Super Bowl, still has kept his job. He's had how many legitimate chances at a Super Bowl with legitimately talented teams and he has no rings. I'm not saying you need to win the SB though, fwiw, you just need to contend. I understand the other side, it's just not where I land I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Gopackgonerd said: You could probably lean talent a little more than coaching, but its not by much. Scheming in this game is very important, the best coached teams will have great schemes and get the most out of your below average players all the way up to your most talented players and put them in the best position to succeed in their system. If you don't have that balance you probably aren't gonna be a great team. You could probably look to the "Dream team" for the Eagles that one season and how that turned out. I'm not saying it's not important. But I believe the major disparity between the best 2 or 3 teams and the tenth is far more talent than scheme, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Outpost31 said: It doesn't tell the whole story though. Doug Pederson is a perfect example of this. His MVP QB goes down with three weeks to go in the regular season and still wins a Super Bowl. Good coaches overachieve with their roster. Bad coaches underachieve. Look at the talented teams Andy Reid has had, still hasn't won a Super Bowl, still has kept his job. He's had how many legitimate chances at a Super Bowl with legitimately talented teams and he has no rings. I'm not sure using arguably the biggest anomaly in NFL history is the best way to support your argument, but whatever works I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm not sure using arguably the biggest anomaly in NFL history is the best way to support your argument, but whatever works I guess. It was the biggest anomaly season ever, I'll give you that. What the Eagles did was improbable in so, so, so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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