Around The League V.2

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

It’s a really good point.

On offence I think we’re just not executing properly plus we haven’t focussed our resources enough on the OLine maybe. 

On defence, maybe they are drafting better and maybe their coaching is better? I really am not sure but it’s a great question to ponder for sure!

 

They are good in the trenches and have drafted exceptionally for 3 straight years with high picks. They rebuilt through the draft properly. Year 3, it's all coming together thus far. 

[Jeremy408]

7 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Well he just said it year 3 vs year 2

1. That has nothing to do with how well the rookie class performed

2. you're telling me a text genius Josh McDaniels two years to get multiple all club players led by a veteran quarterback of his choosing that knows the system? And to clarify things been, Johnson was not the OC the first year that Dan Campbell, West Coast. It was the coach from the chargers and then he got fired.
 

3. Ben Johnson wasn't the office of coordinator until last year. Which means he had the same amount of time as Josh McDaniels

3. That also doesn't answer the question of why have we scored less points than the first three games last year with more money put towards the offense then most teams in the league including the Lions. They do this, so that they can be bottom five in points and bottom 10 in yards.

No matter what excuses or reasons that you have for that there's really no excuse that can truly be made objectively

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jeremy408

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Lions have had 13 top 100 picks since Campbell took over in 2021. They had 12,18,34,45,68,96 this past draft alone. You get that many chances, draft well then you are bound to see some early dividends. 

Oline is a big reason. Their Oline is exceptional with Decker, Ragnow and Sewell all first round picks. Sewell being among the best OT prospects in years to come out. Jonah Jackson was a 3rd round pick in 2020. And Goff is a solid QB to run the offense. 

The Lions defense is basically the same as last year. Outside Sutton and CJGJ (on IR). I would attribute it to coaching and development. But the big addition seems to be Brian Branch who fortified their secondary. And they have a lot of those draft picks who've developed in their 3rd year.

Basically, the Lions did what the Gruden regime failed to do. They traded Stafford, Hockensen and some other pieces to rebuild. Then nailed a lot of their picks. 

 

Forget draft picks, we have the league leading rusher from last year and a perennial, top-five receiver. We have a 15 mil receiver & and a 11 mill receiver. We have a veteran quarterback that was drafted by the head coach originally and handpicked by him this off-season as soon as you can make any agreement with anyone. I don't want to hear about draft picks. We have players that are already established and are scoring less points, then teams that are paying way less for offensive parts. The highest him we scored against was the 17 points against the Broncos and we just saw another team with a real offense of guru score 70 points against them. 
 

but if we're talking about draft picks and penai Sewell and fortifying the office of line, how come we didn't do that. We had two years to fortify the office of line instead, we trade our first 2 draft picks for the best receiver in football and then use all the money to sign a guy who will get arrested a year later and draft players, that aren't ready to play in the first second and third round. When you do that you're not going to get better at the oline. So who's fault is that really? 
 

When you get Canon fodder, right tackles and guards draft an undersized guard in the third round and a seventh round right tackle of course your line is going to suck. The only person that can play is the left tackle. That's your fault.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jeremy408

[big_palooka]

14 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Forget draft picks, we have the league leading rusher from last year and a perennial, top-five receiver. We have a 15 mil receiver & and a 11 mill receiver. We have a veteran quarterback that was drafted by the head coach originally and handpicked by him this off-season as soon as you can make any agreement with anyone. I don't want to hear about draft picks. We have players that are already established and are scoring less points, then teams that are paying way less for offensive parts. The highest him we scored against was the 17 points against the Broncos and we just saw another team with a real offense of guru score 70 points against them. 
 

but if we're talking about draft picks and penai Sewell and fortifying the office of line, how come we didn't do that. We had two years to fortify the office of line instead, we trade our first 2 draft picks for the best receiver in football and then use all the money to sign a guy who will get arrested a year later and draft players, that aren't ready to play in the first second and third round. When you do that you're not going to get better at the oline. So who's fault is that really? 
 

When you get Canon fodder, right tackles and guards draft an undersized guard in the third round and a seventh round right tackle of course your line is going to suck. The only person that can play is the left tackle. That's your fault.

Again... it's been 3 weeks. They played a division opponent and 2 very good defenses.

They have a slate of very winnable games through October. If JG and the offense are still struggling through this stretch, it will hold more weight in my eyes.

As for the rest. Each team prioritizes things their own way. In the case of the Lions, again.... they had tons of picks. Took OT and WR in round 1. Took RB and LB in round 1. More bites at the apple to do what you want. Fun fact, the Raiders had interest in Paris Johnson Jr. and likely would have taken him at 7 if available. Fans would have hated that pick on the Oline because it wasn't on defense. They take defense, they hate that pick because he's raw. You can't win because the fan base simply hates these men. 

And yes, the roster construction has been a problem. But that also pre-dates them. They took over a team that whiffed on 18 top 100 picks. They did no favors with the Chandler Jones signing and they own that one. 

 

[Totty]

I hate the "it's been 3 weeks" mindset.  Actually it's been 20 weeks.  And NOTHING has improved.  In fact I would argue we've regressed. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

53 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Again... it's been 3 weeks. They played a division opponent and 2 very good defenses.

They have a slate of very winnable games through October. If JG and the offense are still struggling through this stretch, it will hold more weight in my eyes.

As for the rest. Each team prioritizes things their own way. In the case of the Lions, again.... they had tons of picks. Took OT and WR in round 1. Took RB and LB in round 1. More bites at the apple to do what you want. Fun fact, the Raiders had interest in Paris Johnson Jr. and likely would have taken him at 7 if available. Fans would have hated that pick on the Oline because it wasn't on defense. They take defense, they hate that pick because he's raw. You can't win because the fan base simply hates these men. 

And yes, the roster construction has been a problem. But that also pre-dates them. They took over a team that whiffed on 18 top 100 picks. They did no favors with the Chandler Jones signing and they own that one. 

 

Dam lol you just expect us to sit down and get fed chocolate covered poop and be happy with a promise that in 3 years it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

We’re not the Steelers we can’t draft guys and afford to sit them because our roster is stacked. We need guys ready to contribute now. So you draft with that thought process. They let go of a good defensive piece in yannick for a older chandler. Then tried to replace him with Wilson the biggest project in the draft. That’s insanely risky and costly. Bad usage of resources. Like hondo said jmd is basically wasting marks $ and our time 

[reddevil]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Again... it's been 3 weeks. They played a division opponent and 2 very good defenses.

They have a slate of very winnable games through October. If JG and the offense are still struggling through this stretch, it will hold more weight in my eyes.

As for the rest. Each team prioritizes things their own way. In the case of the Lions, again.... they had tons of picks. Took OT and WR in round 1. Took RB and LB in round 1. More bites at the apple to do what you want. Fun fact, the Raiders had interest in Paris Johnson Jr. and likely would have taken him at 7 if available. Fans would have hated that pick on the Oline because it wasn't on defense. They take defense, they hate that pick because he's raw. You can't win because the fan base simply hates these men. 

And yes, the roster construction has been a problem. But that also pre-dates them. They took over a team that whiffed on 18 top 100 picks. They did no favors with the Chandler Jones signing and they own that one. 

 

Paris Johnson has looked pretty sensational by all accounts. And at RT.

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

We’re not the Steelers we can’t draft guys and afford to sit them because our roster is stacked. We need guys ready to contribute now. So you draft with that thought process.

We agree on a lot of things but this isn't one sadly. I think you must draft with the future in mind, and especially so if you’re not really a challenger this year. I’m absolutely fine with drafting a project pick if you can realise that potential, ideally, yea they contribute straight away but I’d rather get the player that looks best after year 2 so I’d draft with that thought process. 

[Jeremy408]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Again... it's been 3 weeks. They played a division opponent and 2 very good defenses.

They have a slate of very winnable games through October. If JG and the offense are still struggling through this stretch, it will hold more weight in my eyes.

As for the rest. Each team prioritizes things their own way. In the case of the Lions, again.... they had tons of picks. Took OT and WR in round 1. Took RB and LB in round 1. More bites at the apple to do what you want. Fun fact, the Raiders had interest in Paris Johnson Jr. and likely would have taken him at 7 if available. Fans would have hated that pick on the Oline because it wasn't on defense. They take defense, they hate that pick because he's raw. You can't win because the fan base simply hates these men. 

And yes, the roster construction has been a problem. But that also pre-dates them. They took over a team that whiffed on 18 top 100 picks. They did no favors with the Chandler Jones signing and they own that one. 

 

It makes sense to get an OT there it makes sense to get defense. You just had to get somebody who can contribute now. Not to three years from now. That's with the lions dead. It's not about they had more pics so they showed up more situations. It's we're picking the wrong people and the people that we pass on are producing for other teams. There's no way around that. Then there is of course the problem of the people that they are getting, whether it be draft or FA, are simply not producing. So we're perpetually having needs at the same positions and then failing to fill them. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

We agree on a lot of things but this isn't one sadly. I think you must draft with the future in mind, and especially so if you’re not really a challenger this year. I’m absolutely fine with drafting a project pick if you can realise that potential, ideally, yea they contribute straight away but I’d rather get the player that looks best after year 2 so I’d draft with that thought process. 

Usually guys flash early and often I think if their good. Then they build on that year 2 etc etc like maxx. When you start slow you’re forever behind Imo. unless it’s a qb you’d have to be the craziest combine freak to get picked #7 imo. Even then it’s sketchy.Teams try to take advantage of players rookie years to get prime play for cheap. Before the second contract. 
 

fair enough if you’re ok with taking projects why didn’t you mock Wilson in your mock?

Edited September 30, 2023 by NCOUGHMAN

[jimkelly02]

9 hours ago, Totty said:

I hate the "it's been 3 weeks" mindset.  Actually it's been 20 weeks.  And NOTHING has improved.  In fact I would argue we've regressed. 

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Darbsk]

9 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Usually guys flash early and often I think if their good. Then they build on that year 2 etc etc like maxx. When you start slow you’re forever behind Imo. unless it’s a qb you’d have to be the craziest combine freak to get picked #7 imo. Even then it’s sketchy.Teams try to take advantage of players rookie years to get prime play for cheap. Before the second contract. 
 

fair enough if you’re ok with taking projects why didn’t you mock Wilson in your mock?

Obviously you want production as soon as possible, but if a guy is a slow burner like Namdi for example I’d rather get a guy like that than a guy who plays year one and is solid but doesn’t progress beyond solid if you know what I mean.

I didn’t mock Wilson as I had other players rated higher and I was worried about his slow get off and lack of any real counter or nuance to his game. I chose Gonzalez in ‘me v Ziegler’ but I’d have gone with Witherspoon too. I get what your saying and I guess what I would say would be you have to choose the right project 😁

That doesn't mean that Wilson can’t be a great player in time, and I think it’s fair we give him a little time. That’s not to say we couldn’t have chosen better of course and it is frustrating he’s not at a starting level given where he was taken, hence why I didn’t rate him that highly.

[big_palooka]

19 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Dam lol you just expect us to sit down and get fed chocolate covered poop and be happy with a promise that in 3 years it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

We’re not the Steelers we can’t draft guys and afford to sit them because our roster is stacked. We need guys ready to contribute now. So you draft with that thought process. They let go of a good defensive piece in yannick for a older chandler. Then tried to replace him with Wilson the biggest project in the draft. That’s insanely risky and costly. Bad usage of resources. Like hondo said jmd is basically wasting marks $ and our time 

I love how you guys are leaning on Hondo now...

When he was saying positiive things, you guys bury him as a shill working to make the coach look good. Now he's to be trusted in your eyes? Just find that hilarious. 

That said. That thought process is why you end up with Clelin Ferrel's of the world. We need X and he has a low floor. Then there is no upside to be had. Meanwhile, there is a guy who is raw, but has good length and athletic ability. But he's kind of thin and not strong at the point of attack. He'll need some time. That's Brian Burns who in year 3 came into his own as one of the games top pass rushers. 

[big_palooka]

20 hours ago, Totty said:

I hate the "it's been 3 weeks" mindset.  Actually it's been 20 weeks.  And NOTHING has improved.  In fact I would argue we've regressed. 

It's been 3 weeks with Jimmy G in this offense.

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I love how you guys are leaning on Hondo now...

When he was saying positiive things, you guys bury him as a shill working to make the coach look good. Now he's to be trusted in your eyes? Just find that hilarious. 

That said. That thought process is why you end up with Clelin Ferrel's of the world. We need X and he has a low floor. Then there is no upside to be had. Meanwhile, there is a guy who is raw, but has good length and athletic ability. But he's kind of thin and not strong at the point of attack. He'll need some time. That's Brian Burns who in year 3 came into his own as one of the games top pass rushers. 

I’ve always liked hondo some things I still don’t agree with but I respect his craft and transparency. 
 

burns was picked 16 and iirc had a crazy combine. Still not on Wilson level.