Raiders Defense

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

This is a fun little interview 

 

This guy has the traits to make it in the league, but kind of have a log jam at the position after drafting two guys. 

[Turnobili]

10 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Hurst and Collins both made the list. I'm interested to see if Key can make a leap this season and be an efficient third down pass rusher for us. Would love to see Crosby - Collins - Hurst - Key in together on passing downs. 

its still a pretty big indictment on a #4 overall pick DE that we dont think he should be on the field on 3rd down pass rush sets lol

[massraider]

45 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

its still a pretty big indictment on a #4 overall pick DE that we dont think he should be on the field on 3rd down pass rush sets lol

I do!  I cannot imagine any reason Key would be in over Ferrell. He's faster?

Key is faster, and bendy, but Ferrell had 4.5 sacks his rookie year. He's a much, much better player. Key SOUNDS good,looks good on paper, but has shown almost nothing.  I am very disappointed in Key. Didn't gain any weight, and you know what? Those speedball bendy EDGE guys are usually tough to handle right off the bat. Von Miller, Yannick, Danielle Hunter.

 

It's the players that play a power game that develop. Good fast guys that have no moves can usually run by OTs for 5-6 sacks right away. They will never be as fast as they were that rookie season. 

Chances are Key isn't as fast as his rookie year. And he wasn't fast enough then. There's a pretty good chance this guy just sucks.  

[Turnobili]

26 minutes ago, massraider said:

I do!  I cannot imagine any reason Key would be in over Ferrell. He's faster?

Key is faster, and bendy, but Ferrell had 4.5 sacks his rookie year. He's a much, much better player. Key SOUNDS good,looks good on paper, but has shown almost nothing.  I am very disappointed in Key. Didn't gain any weight, and you know what? Those speedball bendy EDGE guys are usually tough to handle right off the bat. Von Miller, Yannick, Danielle Hunter.

 

It's the players that play a power game that develop. Good fast guys that have no moves can usually run by OTs for 5-6 sacks right away. They will never be as fast as they were that rookie season. 

Chances are Key isn't as fast as his rookie year. And he wasn't fast enough then. There's a pretty good chance this guy just sucks.  

i'd like to see more data to that effect before reaching a conclusion

[holyghost]

How much data? Raider fans invariably give all kinds of love to hype players who show nothing. As a counterpoint, what has Key done to show he deserves any playing time at all? Almost got some sacks two years ago??

Edited May 5, 2020 by holyghost

[Turnobili]

16 minutes ago, holyghost said:

How much data? Raider fans invariably give all kinds of love to hype players who show nothing. As a counterpoint, what has Key done to show he deserves any playing time at all? Almost got some sacks two years ago??

not data as to key, but data as the claim that speed rushers tend to excel earlier than power rushers

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

The way it’s our LB depth is set up, we are going have to count on Muse from Day 1. I would prefer if brought back Vontaze or a vet to help him ease into his role. I do wonder if Muse could be useful guarding Kelce/Fant/Henry. I wonder how he did against TEs in college 

Not really. We're going to have 3 LB's on the field like 35-40% of the time and those snaps will be split between Morrow/Lee. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, massraider said:

I do!  I cannot imagine any reason Key would be in over Ferrell. He's faster?

Chances are Key isn't as fast as his rookie year. And he wasn't fast enough then. There's a pretty good chance this guy just sucks.  

Faster, more bend off the edge, and more pass rush potential. He had glowing reviews after training camp but was dealing with injuries and then missed over half of the season. 

Meh. Key was supposed to be a situational pass rusher as a rookie and then got thrown into the fire because we traded Mack right before the season started. He was coming off an injury/suspension filled season during his last year at LSU and then was a three down DE as a rookie. He had no business playing as much as he did and the responsibility of playing on running downs definitely wore him out. 

I wouldn't say that he sucks, it's too early to make any judgements on him. As a rookie he was miscast and was still getting his feet back underneath himself after a tough final season at LSU. During his second season he dealt with injuries and missed a bunch of games. There's a reason he had top 10 hype coming into his last year at LSU before he blew it. Hopefully he can put it all together for us this year. 

 

2 hours ago, Turnobili said:

its still a pretty big indictment on a #4 overall pick DE that we dont think he should be on the field on 3rd down pass rush sets lol

He hardly played on third down as a rookie top 5 pick last season. Even if it's not Key I'd expect to see Nassib playing a lot on 3rd down over Ferrell unless he has made a huge jump. Ferrell only played like 60% of our defensive snaps last season, had the one strong 2.5 sack game and then 2.0 sacks combined in the other 13 games, and his pass rush win rate of 10% was one of the worst for any edge player in the league. 

 

 

 

[SilverNBlackFan]

15 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

its still a pretty big indictment on a #4 overall pick DE that we dont think he should be on the field on 3rd down pass rush sets lol

The Ngakoue rumors were somewhat of an indictment, too. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

The Ngakoue rumors were somewhat of an indictment, too. 

As well as the fact that we paid Nassib $8M per year in free agency. 

[Humble_Beast]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Not really. We're going to have 3 LB's on the field like 35-40% of the time and those snaps will be split between Morrow/Lee. 

Well Lee is iffy at best lol. If we get one injury to Littleton or Kwit , muse going be thrown against the 🐺 wolves lol. Idk I just think it’s iffy to go into the season we just two good LBS , easy our more thin unit. 

[MrOaktown_56]

I think ferrell can certainly make strides in year 2. That book is far from written. Key honestly looked good rushing from outside (NOT INSIDE) last year. I think he will be a very useful situational rusher, while Nassib will be mostly used to spell Crosby and Ferrell. I think Hurst/Collins will rush the most from the inside.

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

Well Lee is iffy at best lol. If we get one injury to Littleton or Kwit , muse going be thrown against the 🐺 wolves lol. Idk I just think it’s iffy to go into the season we just two good LBS , easy our more thin unit. 

Lee is okay as a thumper in run support at SLB. I wish we would've added one more FA LB or a more experienced LB than Muse. But FWIW Vic Tafur said the staff feels like Kwit/Littleton are both 3 down players and they're confident in Morrow/Lee as backups in their third seasons in the system. I think it'd still be a smart move to add one more veteran linebacker to the group though. I'd welcome any of Vontaze Burfict, Darron Lee, Alec Ogletree, or Deone Buccanon. All four of those guys have played a ton of football in their careers. 

[NYRaider]

45 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think ferrell can certainly make strides in year 2. That book is far from written. Key honestly looked good rushing from outside (NOT INSIDE) last year. I think he will be a very useful situational rusher, while Nassib will be mostly used to spell Crosby and Ferrell. I think Hurst/Collins will rush the most from the inside.

I want Ferrell take make a major leap this year I'm just worried that he doesn't have the physical tools to be a dominant pass rusher in the NFL. He flashed as a really strong run defender last season so in an ideal world he'll give us 7-8 sacks this year while providing elite run support. Hopefully the addition of Collins inside helps free up some looks for Ferrell. 

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I want Ferrell take make a major leap this year I'm just worried that he doesn't have the physical tools to be a dominant pass rusher in the NFL. He flashed as a really strong run defender last season so in an ideal world he'll give us 7-8 sacks this year while providing elite run support. Hopefully the addition of Collins inside helps free up some looks for Ferrell. 

TBH I would be very surprised if Ferrell ever becomes a dominant pass rusher no matter how hard he works or how high his football IQ is. I think you've hit the nail on the head, if he's a great run defender, leader and can chip in with a consistent 6 to 8 sacks a year he'll be a valuable player whether that is ultimately worth a top 5 pick is debatable however.